Comparing Chengdu J-20 with F-22, F-35 and Su-PAK FA or T-50

We have witnessed a lot about the Chinese Stealth fighter J-20, being developed by the Chinese Aircraft manufacturer Chengdu. The J-20 is a Fifth generation aircraft with stealth capabilities. Only time will tell if the J-20 will match the current stealth aircrafts or will be superior than them. The F-22 Raptor has proven technology and hence it has been speculated that most of the 5th generation aircrafts today are similar to the Raptor.

It is also speculated that this proven design of the F-22 has either been taken by spying,purchasing and then reverse engineered to create a new prototype by rival nations. That is the main reason why US is not exporting the F-22 because they fear that nations like China and Russia would use their designs especially after 1.7 terabytes of top secret information was stolen from them.

If we compare the look and design of J-20 you will find that it has a delta-wing-canard layout whereas the F-22 and F-35 have both diamond-wing-conventional layout. The frontal aspect of J-20 looks extremely similar to that of  American F-35 JSF with twin DSI intake and V-shaped tail. The J-20 has a canard-delta twin-engine configuration, diverted-less supersonic intakes, and a shaped nose consistent with the use of an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar. To maintain stealth, the F-22 carries its weapons in internal bays.



The J-20 seems to be fitted with WS-10 engines rather than WS-15 but this cannot be confirmed. The thrust generated by  J-20 is 180 kN which leads to better engine performance.

The F-22 Raptor has dual afterburning Pratt & Whitney F119-PW-100 turbofans incorporate pitch axis thrust vectoring, with a range of ±20 degrees.  The maximum thrust is classified, though most sources place it at about 156 kN.

The F-35’s main engine is the Pratt & Whitney F135. The General Electric/Rolls-Royce F136 is being developed as an alternative engine. The PAK FA was expected to use a pair of Saturn 117S engines on its first flights producing 142 kN thrust in the afterburner. The PAK FA would be the first fifth generation fighter with full 3-D thrust vectoring along all three aircraft axes: pitch, yaw and roll.

The J-20 design is similar to the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor and the Sukhoi T-50 fighters. Sources indicate the twin-engine J-20 prototype could be using the Russian-built Saturn 117S (AL-41F1A) engine, the same being used in the T-50 and Su-35 prototypes.  China has expressed interest in procuring large quantities of the Saturn 117S from Russia and rumors at the recent Zhuhai Airshow in China indicate a J-20 prototype had been outfitted with the 117S.

The F-22 Raptor uses AN/APG-77 AESA radar, designed for air superiority and strike operations, features a low-observable, active-aperture, electronically-scanned array that can track multiple targets in any weather.

The main sensor on board of the F-35 is its AN/APG-81 AESA-radar, designed by Northrop Grumman Electronic Systems and is augmented by the Electro-Optical Targeting System (EOTS) mounted under the nose of the aircraft, designed by Lockheed Martin.

For the T-50 PAK FA, radar with APAA is provided by NIIP. The J-20 is stated to use an advanced radar however the make of it is still not known.  Although J-20 appears as a better stealth aircraft than the rest, the Chinese pilots are not as experienced than the US pilots. The US has pilots that have been in combat situations for years. Moreover the AWACs, missile technology, radar tech, etc are all championed by the US and Russia. Its time to wait and watch how the J-20 performs in future as compared to the rest.

It is interesting to note that on our previous article Chengdu J-20 China’s first stealth fighter takes to the skies we got lot of traffic from US, Canada, UK, Australia, South Korea and Japan. We wonder if this news came as a shock to these countries. Also we got lot of response from China too, considering the tight lipped Chinese government this news must have been a pleasant surprise for the Chinese people. What do you think about the comparison of these fighters against J-20? Although it is too soon to tell, let us know what you think.

Chengdu J-20 Chinese Stealth fighter maiden flight [Video and Pictures]

Threat analysis of Chengdu J-20 the chinese stealth fighter

New Photos and Video of Chengdu J-20 The Chinese Stealth Fighter Released

Chengdu J-20 China’s first stealth fighter takes to the skies

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  • Os

    The "fifth generation" plane has not even taken off the ground yet. I sense MiG-25 euphoria and lack of objective debate, for all I know we could be seeing the Chinese Tacit Blue, plus the Americans may have had already begun work on a sixth generation fighter, so nothing new happening in the world.

    • Anonymous

      We have begun researching 6th generation fighters. There called scram jets and most likely will not be seen even in testing until 2020. Also, other then the F-35, we do not have any other gen 5 fighters in production (at least that we now of). That's scary because the F-22 is still considered a far better fighter then the F-35 but the design is almost 20 years old. Heck all it would take is for Russia or China to make a copy of an F-22 and put in a better HUD system and then we would have already fallen behind.

      • John

        All aircraft designs that are in production today around around 20+ years old. Aircraft take a very long time from drawing board until production. That goes for both military and civilian aircraft.

    • Guest

      The "fifth generation" plane has not even taken off the ground yet. But USA has 6th generation….Good joke

  • Jack

    None of the fighters have seen a real fight. As some wise man on twitter said "it is not a plane until it flies and it's not a fighter until it fights" So any kind of speculation will be too early for now. Saying that I believe the countries which have highest combat records will have a better chances of creating "The best stealth fighter" because pilot experience, current as well as veteran counts.

    • tommy

      very true

  • Mike

    I think the fact that the US has a lot of experience with stealth fighters is surely one thing the Chinese can't ignore, even if they have built a stealth fighter that may be as good as the F-22 and even the under development PAK-FA, it will take a lot of years for the Chinese to cope up with the US when deploying stealth aircraft in combat situations. As far as the aircraft is concerned, it certainly seems to have a large payload capacity (may be more than the F-22) due to its higher ground clearance which helps is loading bigger weapons on board; also many websites say that the Chinese aircraft lacks thrust vectoring, which is will be a serious drawback since both the F-22 and PAK FA are capable of thrust vectoring. Only time will tell how much China will succeed in its stealth aircraft program.

    • zazz

      didnt they load weaponry inside weapons bays in stealth aircrafts? something about hanging them under the wings negates stalth?

  • Jorge

    As it may be the Chinese consistent and persistents to obtain blueprints of the American F22 and F35 through computer hackking is most definitely A threat! there is similarities Of Design features found from the F22 and F35 Stealth Designs, but not sure how much stealth technology china obtain from the USA through hackking indeed you did mention there is 1.7 Terabyte Of Classified Information was hacked and stolen! Its only goes to show that the Peoples Liberation Army Air Force are desperate to maintain there sphere Of influence in North East Asia, South East Asia and the Far East Sphere..

    • south farmer

      to continue… F22 and F35 also 'borrowed' their designs from Chinese engineers who work in the US. as a physics graduate myself i knew that human knowlegde is not originated from a particular nation, race or political system. it is a result of sharing and cross-referencing. to get an example please read this wiki article
      overall a lot of discussions around the j20 are just groundless speculations based on media or politically monitored knowledge.

  • max

    Even if J-20 exists as we seen numerous pictures on the internet ,there is probably no cause for alarm. The United States flew its first stealth
    prototypes — the YF-22 and rival YF-23 — in 1990; the J-20 hasn’t even flown yet. It took 15 years for the F-22 to enter front-line service. Considering China’s quality-control problems with high technology, it could take a decade or more for the J-20 to be fully functional.
    The major question arising at this point is whether the J-20 is a true prototype, like the T-50, or a technology demonstrator, with a status similar to the YF-22 flown in 1990. That question will be answered by whether, and how many, further J-20s enter flight testing in the next 12-24 months.
    The design of J-20 looks like it incorporates styling cues from the F-22 /F-23 and the Russian Mig 1.42 project.Its a bigger aircraft than the F-22 Raptor with larger weapon bays and more fuel but that might not be a good thing when it comes to being stealthy.

    • kraker

      But the f 22 was the first stealth fighter therefore they learned it all and then copied even did the russians soit might of taken us 15 years but we were the first no even thought of a multirole stealth fighter in the 80s and if anyone thinks they have more technology than the us because they finally had something better than the ten year in service f 22 then yall have problems.

  • H John

    America has more to worry from the new chinese anti-ship ballistic missile. The J20 may seem to be a step forward for China but it's still behind technologically. The F22 has more to worry from the Russian Pak-Fa which is probably a lot more advanced than the J20. A lot of Chinese developments are not coming from the West but in fact from Russia. They are buying as much Russian technology as they can and then reverse-engineering it. The J20 relies on Russian engines for example.

    • iqueen

      what’s could be wrong for people want to defend their mother land from the big strong army with 3 carriers and a lot of F-22 stealth fighters at doorway.

    • farhan bakhsh

      the j 20 is the origanal phototype staelth fighter .no worry for america the truth is american engines is more powerfull than russian engines and china not decided about engines because this maiden flight shows only design of the aircraft when j 20 fully operational than comparison will be easy.. at the moment very difficult to say about his performance.after 5 years may have diffrent senario of world situation may be china make our indeginous engines like russian 117s or american pratt & witney or other may be ej 2000 .but i want to say j 20 is superior to pak fa t 50 but little to early to say about the comparison of j 20 with f 22 raptor

    • south farmer

      J20 uses 'Mande in China' WS engines. Chinese engineers have moved away from Russian influence since the J10 including the engines. Russian plane developers are now trying to get 1 or 2 from Chinese avionics…

      • wdxf1

        WS was developed from and based on the CFM56 engine core technology imported from the US to China in 1980s.

    • gnak

      everybody talks like experts wonder how many here do research on stealth

  • WageslaveZ

    I sense some Foxbat hysteria with the J-20. IMO opinion, it looks like a Raptor got smashed together with an Su-47 Berkut. The Chinese might sacrifice clones of the P&W F119 for Saturn 117s or AL-37s to save R&D and manufacturing cost to get in on the market ASAP. The PLAAF modus operandi for the J-20 would likely be as a “Stealth bully” to extend their air-defense grid far into the Pacific rim and give U.S. PACAF aircraft, especially tankers, surveillance aircraft, and AWACS something to fear.

    Sadly, this is the cost of the U.S. political and business classes cutting corners, outsourcing, and killing manufacturing jobs in the States. We’ve fed the Red Dragon, now it’s flexing it’s muscles, sharpening it’s fangs, and dripping venom at the chance of combat at the expense of short-sighted Western trade policy. For a nation that flaunts building it’s domestic infrastructure for the benefit of it’s people, China sure does spend an inordinate amount of it’s vast trade surplus on bloating it’s military inventory to pressure a weakened U.S. military.

    Be interesting to see a defector get one of these beasts to Taiwan, Japan, or Vietnam so we could dissect it like past MiG platforms. This either would confirm DOD estimates or show an overestimation of PLAAF capabilities.


    • Anup

      Your underestimation of Chinese technology reminds me of routine underestimation of Soviet Technologies by the West. The soviets underestimated the Mig-25 only to be fooled. Then again the Flanker family was considered inferior to the F-15 only to be shown that it is superior (Exercises with IAF – Cope India). The west basis its analysis on account of wars that have occurred between Israel and the Arabs without taking into account that users of American equipment are normally richer countries with extensive maintenance, training facilities (Israel , EU) while those with Soviet equipment are normally poorer countries (Arabs , North Korea, et all). These estimates come undone in case of a level playing field like the Indo Pak War of 1971 where the famed Sabre and Starfighters of PAF were outgunned by Soviet Mig-21's used by India

      • sam

        The inferiority of the F-15 is a lie during that exercise the US pilots were unable to use BVR which they were not trained to do. Later on at operation red flag where the US fighters were allowed to use what they actually can it was a different story. Infact the Indian pilots actually said they no longer wanted to do 1v1's because they were losing so much. Even in 2v2's and up though they were getting rocked so ya never underestimate something that has a 104:0 kdr

        • Lomunac


      • sam

        also sabers were meant to fight mig 17's not 21s F-4's fought 21s mostly and by the end of vietnam the F-4's held a 4:1 kdr against the migs

        • Lomunac

          4:1? Against Mig 17, maybe, 1:1 against Mig-21.

  • James

    When has anything from China every lasted and worked perfectly…..everything "made in China" that I know of breaks out of the box.

    • rithuik

      u must note that electronics of the pak fa r developed by the indians who unlike chinese can match Us in that field

    • topdog

      even made in china toy can kill, what make you think china fighter wont

    • Zsivhawk

      That's because they sell us the shit they make and we are stupid enough to buy it. You think we get the best of what they have?

    • American People

      I hate to break the sad but FACTUAL news to you. When the poison dumplings in Japan and Melamine in baby formula news broke out the Japanese Government did a full audit of Chinese Goods. These records are available through the WTO. They found that the FULL volume of Chinese goods actually had a LOWER defect rate than either JAPANESE or AMERICAN made goods!!!

      This kind of mentality happens all the time still in America. They say stuff like American cars are the BEST and are better than all foreign. Then the BMWs and Toyotas take over because they have superior manufacturing quality controls. America cannot stay the best IF we cannot produce the BEST.

      We must hasten the technological flow from our military to civillian use products. Our advanced technology needs to find more practical beyond military uses. The US invented large laser discs for government and military applications. Sony used it for simple human pleasures of music. This is how we will maintain our Superpower status. No one today believes Japan is a threat anymore after we brought US military tech, the internet, to the mainstream.

      • Hodor

        US military production is very different from comercial production,in fact Military production is the best in the world.

  • Ha ha

    I think alot of people are missing the point regarding the J20. To save arguments, can we assume performance wise that F22 > F35 > PAK FA > J20 > other planes (that is, F22 is the best in performance) and price wise J20 < PAK FA < F35 < F22. In light of this, can you imagine the impact it will have in the power of balance in the world if China exports the J20s at very affordable prices? It makes all other aircrafts redundant.

    If China want to screw the US, all it needs to do is to sell the J20s to countries that aren't very warm to the US, as I doubt very much the US have the capability to simultaneously fight better armed opponents around the world. And not that I want to see this happening because the world is still a better place with the US in charge!

    • anno

      pakfa>f22>f35>other planes

    • Andrew Darko

      Good contribution Ha ha, But there is one thing having it and the other thing knowing how to use it effectively through expereance. Also how many combat missions and engagements have the j 20 flown and in what terrin has it been tested compared to the F35 and F22 which we all have witnessed it perfomed in many missions.Lastly please bear in mind that there is a big difference between the innovator and the copier through reverse engineering. so by the time the j20 will be commercialized and sold at moderate price to the world, the west would have had a much more superior capability than the J 20.

    • Bill

      The current consensus is F-22>J-20>T-50

    • sandy

      Though?I‘m chinese?I still know sth. about the F35,and i just want to say……Are you kidding?the performace F35>J20?completely?the F35 is just a three-legs cat ?which has a lot obvious deficits and has been widely thinked as be too much emasculated.

    • John

      Why are we comparing apples to oranges? The F-35 is a support fighter, NOT an air superiority fighter. People need to stop comparing the F-35 to the F-22 or any other air superiority aircraft. It was not built for air superiority, it was built for ground attack, air defense, and reconnaissance.

    • jjlht

      lol, f35 > pak-fa. f35 is in fact < su35.

  • south farmer

    🙂 well, I am in Australia, not to offend but a few facts to respond with quotes:
    James said "…everything "made in China" that I know of breaks out of the box"
    true if i buy it from shops like 'Hot Dollar' but i do have a Hisense LED tv that cost me less and performs better than the rest.

    rithuik said "u must note that electronics of the pak fa r developed by the indians who unlike chinese can match Us in that field"
    i doubt if you are a businessman. ask around mobile phone manufacturers for example in india and hear they tell you that almost all accessories are made in China because Indians just failed on precision engineering. oh why?!.

    • abhijnan

      well mr farmer to answer to your nonsense , look around china and answer this… Why china always does reverse engineering and still takes 100 yrs to do so. and we all know reverse engineered duplicates are how good or bad. also china does all mobile phone works due to cheap labor and not because they do exceptional high pres-ion work. only reason is that Chinese do labor for pennies and provide cheap labor. and unlike ur copy cat china which can on ly do reverse engineering and create duplicates , India is world known for technology expertise and IT expertise and we designed successfully our own plane our own tank and many other things even with sanctions on our heads. so know ur pathetic limits and see that you chinnese are good for only copying and creating duplicates and nothing else. and your fighter planes are like toys i mean chienes toys

      • godzillajet

        Believe me, India has nothing they can´t even feed their people, the PAK-FA is not Indian it´s RUSSIAN, India has just joined the program to get that fighter.

  • American Patriot

    China has proven itself very capable of manufacturing advanced technological items, from cell phones to aircraft. They are also working on wind turbines and civilian aircraft. Our public in the west has better wake up to this fact and demand more domestic manufacturing and engineering from our business leaders instead of outsourcing and importing. Our soft and corrupt business leaders happily turn over our latest technology to the Chinese in exchange for minor access to their markets. Imagine the uproar from China if western countries got Chinese business leaders to turn over their latest technology to us for so little in return. In the west, especially the USA, we must force our business leaders to do their patriotic duty and place their country ahead of themselves for a change. I have every confidence that the Chinese J 20 aircraft will be every bit as good for all intensive purposes as the best western aircraft and maybe superior, and it will be built in whatever numbers the Chinese government wants. This due to the Chinese industrial base which is analogous to the USA industrial base before, during, and three decades after WWII, before its precipitous decline thanks to the greed, arrogance, dishonesty, treachery, and selfishness of western business leaders from the 1970's to now.

    • Dejan

      Don't forgot the mass production. Ok superfighter is superfighter j belive that F22 is better aircraft than chinese but if you make them in large number? China have a industrial potential to do this, and what is for example 100 fighters F22's against 500 fighters J-20's. If history of wars teach us something that is that war wins that one with large mass production of any weapon and his mass number killing any superweapon! Germans in WWII has the best war tehnology best fighters (Me109, Me 262 first jet figter), rocket technology (V1 & V2), best tank (Tiger) but we know who win war! And that whole US military high tehnology of 50's even 60's is based on continuing works based of german tehnology from WWII. Whole american space program up to Apollo is based on german V tehnology. Constructor of all rockets is Verner Von Braun (V1 and V2 constructor). So Chinese do the same! Part of that maybe they find in Serbia when 1999 during operation "Merciful" Angel Serbian 250 rocket division shut down F117 over Budjanovci, maybe not the whole thing but story about special painting (paint analysis) and similar things!

      • Hodor

        Primary resources blockade in war will put chinese industry to halt,and guess what they dont have the production ability in war time like the US.

  • What’s with the buzz anyway? Besides it’s USA and RUSSIA does not have to worry about china, it’s the terrorist they should worry about… Anway good for china to have it, and for USA it was your fault in the first place unsecure connection’s so dumb of you…

  • Kalga

    Remember, China can never win because PLOT SAYS SO!!! (I mean, when did China ever win a conflict in any show/moive/game?)

    But in truth, the People's Republic can and will build large amounts of very advance fighter… only when they feel that the tech is high enough for it to be worthwhile.

  • Nikita

    Interesting article, I always considered the J-20 to have copied its frontal cross section from the F-22, but I think you're right. Taking a second look, it does look alot more like the F-35.

    In my opinion the J-20 is worse than any of their analogues. The delta wing configuration has too much energy bleed for tight turns, and the canards are not enough on their own to alleviate that (The fact they even include them at all despite their negative impact on RCS shows that the delta wings have poor aeronautic performance).

    Also there is the matter of the weight distribution of the airframe. Like the F-22 it is quite balanced which reduces its maneuverability, and stops it from performing maneuvers like the kalbut, turning cobra and puchagev's cobra without the aid of tvc.

    I also heard it was that the J-20 would be the same size as the PAK FA or the F-22, which means it would have about the same combat persistence.

    Besides these few things we really don't know much. China hasn't produced as AESA radars (to the public's knowledge) or even its own engines, so there really isn't much to go on right now. Maybe we will know more later.

    • rigkkk

      The J20 made its first flight with the improved version of WS10 engine. Chinese have been making their own engines for quite a long time. Their J10 adn J11 both equipped with their ow engine now. Rumor also has that their WS15 is about to come out too.

  • Kamal M

    The Pakistani's are welcome to the J20, we Indians would enjoy watching it go down, I mean the Pakistani's have been fed with stories about one Paki pilot downing 30 Indian jets in one go !!!! No wonder they could not accept the fact that two third of their air force vanished during 1971 war, while its air force at east Pakistan was totally wiped out !!!!!!!!!!!
    Machines will be machines and the only difference is the human pilot flying it, so while the J20 make look bulky, slow and with lot of missing technology, have the American’s figured out that the Chinese could use them to stuff it to the hilt with tons of bombs and then crash the J20 on to one of the aircraft carriers? Bingo, the advanced technology theory would go up in flames….

    • Captain Retro

      India's Air Assets are truly formidable….and their training is second to none (on par with US and Israeli pilots). In recent exercised, their Sukhois frequently defeated F-15's in mock combat.

      • Typhoon

        Indians always like to boast about themselves. On the contrary, Chinese always like to keep a low profile and observe and analyse their opponents strength and weaknesses..
        Mosst Americans and Indians always think the Chinese are poorly trained fighter pilots without having a clue on how Chinese trained their pilots. They have forgotten how Chinese fighter pilots fought during the Korean War and they have failed to understand the Chinese determination and perseverance in whatever they do. Just look at how China trained their Gymnasts and Divers and the results they produce in the Olympic Games
        The Chinese Air Force will be a lot more demanding and it is a grave mistake to under estimate them.

      • Tam

        funny thing is indian asks americans to not use their airborne early warning radar or E-3 and E-2C/D (they said to american, come on ur wepon are so advanced why not try to face us with out E-3?) (funny thing is america accepted that lol) but themselves use airborne early warning radar the A-50I against F-15 and F16. well how obvious…ofcourse airborne early warning radar can see further than a regular fighter. thats why F-15 lost. in real war no one can beat american airforce, not chinese, not russian, and definitely not indians.

        • Nikhil

          i think your views flawed,get it verified.
          and btw russian have always been ahead of USA in space/defence/aviation until it got divided.
          F22r are ur only chance against massive iaf…

          and one more question::
          how u got the idea “in real war no one can beat american airforce”
          dude even vietnaam defeated u.And just for ur info our inventry is technologically superior to chinas so ur statement “defenitely not indian is a flawed one.

          • Bill

            "Technologically superior to China's"

            Yeah, in what? Crash rates?

          • Tim Benton

            That is why in every war where top of the line Russian equiptment has gone against American equiptment it has been overwhelmingly destroyed. Why else do you think that the little Korean dictator, the Iranians and other countries are looking into Nukes, because they found out how truly terrible the Russian equiptment was.

          • Lomunac


          • Hodor

            Keep dreaming,rusia outdated equipment has no chance,think the S-300 will save their asses? lol Syrian forces have s-30 and they have tried to lock f-22 with no avail. Kepep dreaming if you can stop the tomawaks deploying from destroyers in open sea.

          • Lomunac

            S-300? Try S-500… What a layman.

        • igor kuznetsov

          Why dont u read wht hppnd with ur f16s at cope india where no AWACS were used..ur f16s fell like flies ..iaf jets not only beat us but israeli jets too in red flag exercise when usa's awac was being used both mutually,.fighting puny countries like iraq, iran, afganistan etc will not prove anything..unfortunately ur words go against u after seeing usaf performance in war games agaist iaf

  • Zeljko

    Seems to me that the Chinese have accepted the MiG concept of speed dominant planes like MiG 1.42.
    The plane looks fast and dangerous. Nice to see a red star back on the air too.

    • Hodor

      yeah its nice to have Migs toblow in the air with teh advanced wepaonry of the J.-22

  • Jordan

    For some reason I have always thought the T50 was uncomparable to the J-20 and F-22 Raptor. But please, and I literally say please, do not use the concept of copying to diss China's technological capabilities. Back in WW2, Soviet and America both stole technology from Nazi Germany. Every country copies, but if you see copying from China, why is it all different? Because you can't accept facts. Seriously. -.-

    • Bill

      The T-50 lacks some advantages in these areas:

      – Stealth: the T-50 does not have jagged edges, platform alignment, smooth profile, single piece canopy, and intakes that hide fan blades. Even if the T-50 is glossed with radar absorbent material, its stealth shaping will put it at a very dangerous spot in a BVR fight.

      – Aerodynamics: the T-50 does not seem to have the low drag configuration of various fighters like the F-16XL. The LERX will provide AOA, but I have a feeling canards will have a greater effect.

      – Avionics: the N050 will be among the best radars, but according to military insiders, the J-20's Type 1475 will be the largest radar among all 5th generation fighters. Please note that Russia is still testing its first AESA radar while China has already deployed three in service and is developing at least 4 different variants for future and present fighters (J-20, J-15, J-11B, J-10B).

      • Hodor

        larger doesnt mean better.

  • PizzaEater

    For all u ppl trying to console yourself that everything that China produced is crap! My reply is keep on sleeping….. They have been taken over every manufacturing imaginable. They have the world biggest foreign reserves, they are the biggest creditor of the US. If anybody told you 20 years back that China will become like what it is today, you will laughing your asses off…."What a bunch of commies challenging the US??!!!"…. and still u idiots underestimate them…. Oh well if it makes you sleep better…

    • fawaka

      @PizzaEater, right on!!
      I have the same thought as you, underestimate the Chinese and overestimate themselves….
      In the end when a commie country is holding all the cards, they will scratch themselves how did that happened??
      "they were suppose to be bad in everything…."

    • Art Lee

      Sounds like Japan in the 80’s does it not ? Japan has since suffered a bit of a downturn. Had to happen with the the way they financed everything. The Ginza is not worth more than the 48 lower states right ? China will suffer an even more severe fall. The reason being what they have based this economic growth on is even less sustainable than what Japan did.

  • Jake

    theF22 is a rust bucket with many out of service. They require 100hrs service for each hour of flight. Expensive, useless white elephants. In a real combat situation the f18s and f15s would fare better.

    • guest

      i share your thought that F18 F15 fares better, but i have to say, even though theyre jets, the F22 is a different animal (so to speak). BTW, 34hrs per 1 flight hour. and try researching f15 and f18. you would find that every plane in history more or less has problems, and these two planes come close to the same as the f22 initially. count the fact that f22 has stealth (a valuable advantage) which accounts for majority of time serviced. not to mention most info on f22 is still classified. if u are an American, be glad…. i shouldnt have to say why. F22, J20, T50, x-wing, it doesnt matter. why, cuz we have more than the other guy. only problem with F22, flyaway cost. they arent useless, matter of fact the gov't learned a lesson thinking the expense was worth it considering its interests (you and me, i hope). and now they know a little more about stealth tech and whatever else they got going for chinese, i wont comment on a jet thats only been seen in a picture. sure, its bigger rt? they just might be compensating for something. who knows. i understand your concern for the f22, but a rusty bucket is better than no bucket. and in that case, we got lots of buckets, and dont forget we sell these things to everyone else on our side. future expectations?? think unmanned. oh, and EVERYTHING CHINA MAKES IS CRAP (to the guy that eats pizza). and when they come wanting the money they say we owe them, does anyone really think we will pay? hmm, food for thought.

      • Hodor

        I’t doesnt,in training excercises the F-22 has taken out up to 15 f-15 without been hit.

  • William

    Well,from what i observed from the J20 details,I think it can be a very dangerous bird and even can beat the F22. But lets see in the future because it too early to make a result.

    • Hodor

      lol it has no chance against the F-22,its like a sitting duck in the air.

  • Nick

    I'm living in Chengdu, I didn't see that jet. 😀

  • nhtse

    Too many amateur's view in this post and comments, make the whole page lack of any value for referencing…
    J-20 is bomber? I can only laugh at this kind of views! In PLAAF, a bomber will be named (JH-??) instead of (J-??).
    About the stealth features, T-50 contains the least, and it is even not coated with RAM! Anyway it is still a prototype or technology demostrator…
    Some comments of "…China hasn't produced as AESA radars (to the public's knowledge) or even its own engines…". I can only say that something that you don't know does no mean it does not exist…

    • Bill

      China has produced AESAs. In fact they are in service with three platforms while the Russians are testing their first AESA. The Chinese are also producing new AESAs for fighters like the J-20, J-15, J-11B, J-10B. These radars are larger than their current Russian equivalent and according to military insiders the J-20 will have the largest AESA among all 5th generation fighters.

  • Captain Retro

    I'll laugh when the Chicoms make a grab for Taiwan, and the brave Taiwanese people bring F-84's, F-104's, and F-5's out of retirement to face the threat….and kick Chicom ass.

  • Spartan 7742

    The only way to find which one is best is in a real battle. Though I go more for the F-22 preferably, also most of the details remain classified. If for what ever reason we were in a war with contries using export versions of the J-20, we will be nocking them down like flies. The reason for this is because they have that new master piece of theirs under development while us Americans with out a doubt have something under development as well, and our plane was made in the 1980's, while theres was made in the 21st centery. Doesnt that mean that we have more experience at aircraft, therefore if its true that the J-20 is a match for the F-22 when the F-22 was made in the 1980's must mean that our next plane must exponentialy better. Theres is supposely a match to a plane made in the1980's must mean, what does that tell you about an American plane made in the 21st centery.

    • Olinz

      I don't know if the US has the fundings to design, produce and deploy any super high-tech 6g fighters nowadays.

    • Tiga

      The U.S should have a btr plane in development right now. i mean like the US army is the most powerful army in the world right? The US army has a giant fleet of planes and superb pilots which some have experienced war compared to China which has a lesser number of
      pilots(which are probably not that experienced), which probably indicates that if china ever wants to wrangle with the US they'll be in for a big surprise.

  • Mike

    let me just say something a worked on jet aircraft my whole life.I live in Long Island Ny..nhtse you have to be kidding me the J-20 is nothing more then a copy of the canceled Mig.1.42 and middle Fuselage of Su-47 do you know its almost impossible to build a stealth design with Canards sticking out the side you know what that does to the RCS and clearly the J-20 needs it for stabilty reasons.Su-50 im sorry to tell you is a far superior stealth design.You know your country is going to depend heavily on Russian Technology your dont even have your own engine for your aircraft,its Russian and your composites are years behind Russia which the Tu-160 blackjack has better composites then the J-20 anyone to even compare is going by a wikipedia Globalsecurity info that site is Run by Chinese Sympotizers

    • jobjed

      the canard stealth issue was solved 10 years ago by using composite materials and incorporating plasma stealth. besides, canards dont compromised stealth in level flight, it only compromises in sharp turns in dogfights with other aircraft in which case, if the opponent was also stealth, it would be compromised too because no plane can still maintain stealth with turning sharply, not even the f-22

      • god

        Plasma stealth! My god you are a knob and a know nothing. Plasma stealth is a myth. I could explain why it doesnt work…but you should probably just go do some research. Anyone who knows anything about this topic knows this is so. Pathetic.

  • Brian

    hey, u guys think chinese tech suk right, fall apart right? so why are u guys addictive to apple product? even american's best F-35 support ipod touch lol? ipod war machine. so how come apple product last so long? although its designed in u.s.a but it is entirely built in china! lol for u american soldiers trusting chinese made product in war? millions of them carry apple product into war. i bet they are pre programed and during the war hackers can turn all of them into small lithum battery hand gernade. yea, a hand gernade inside F-35, no so good of a idea. oh and lithum damage damage neurons, and turn ur soldiers into mentally retarded.

    • Tam

      yea so true…all apple stuff is made in china

      • Hodor

        It si build with US,policies,not chinese.

  • Tom

    This is all competition, you gotta have someone worth beating to feel superior. Back in the Cold War, both the West and East accomplished feats of unimaginable possibility at the time. Hopefully Russia and China can catch up fast enough to cause the same competitive nature back during the Cold War era to re-spark our innovation and creativity.

    • Dakota Roo

      However…in developing capitalist "globalism", significant portions of the nation's capital has fled overseas. The capitalist class has abandoned the nation whoring after the next buck. The national arsenal should have been nationalized decades ago….but nooooo, they gotta get their last dime of profit first while exploiting the cheap labor.

  • Karl

    A paradigm shift occured when the F22 became operational and most of you guys haven't realised it. The ability to maintain air supremacy over a foreign territory without the adversary even knowing you were there, even months or years after you left. If you think helicopters flew into Pakistan without complete air supremacy you are kidding yourself. F22's 'may' have been overflying Pakistan for many hours before any choppers even took off. The ability of this thing to act as an invisible sensor platform is key, and nobody even knew it was there. I bet the Chinese don't have the integrated back end to take advantage of that kind of capability, let alone support that kind of persistent operation.

  • easy to find info

    wow you people need to wake up and educate yourself the j20 is a joke stolen tech from a downed america plane and russian data when has china ever been formidable never and the reason why this tech is availible is not because of a computer hacking its because during the balkan war the us had a f117 steath fighter shot down in yugoslavia in 1999 and because clinton was a cunt he never recovered the aircraft and the serbs captured it and and sold it to russia which is well known info the j20 is reverse engineeered tech mixed with stolen russian test data from the mikoyan corp the pak was developed from the prototype mig 47 and further more the us has no proven f22 or f35 they have been grounded since they were bought and that was even recent american news on cnn the whole fleet of 20 f35 have been grounded indeffinatly because of electrical problems and never performed in combat or been in active duty and the f22 have never performed in combat and the 200 the americans have also been grounded and are not in active duty plus the raptor programme was canceled last year to save money the americans have not been able to perfect their own tech and the russians and indians are gonna have a batch of fighters in active service starting in 2015 from there they will have over 600 each buy 2021

  • steven gillespie

    i would have no concern with a raptor going one on one with a j20 but what would concern me the most is if the chinese built 750-1000 j20s&just outnumbered us although the j20 is not expected to be in service till 2020,there are 137raptors so we either build more or some thing better&cost effective,i think the eurofighter is well balaced it is a 4.5jet but has 3major upgrades to radar,engines,avionics russia t50 is a technology demonstrator good jet but 10yrs from flying,so condensed idea,the west will rule the skies for at least another 50yrs

    • Hodor

      US has already constructed 100F-22,no worries my friend we are covered 🙂

  • Ben

    The J 20 stealth technology is based of one of our F 117's that got shot down in the former Yugoslavia in the 90's/ Chinese agents bought the debris off the local farmers and villagers. This technology theyre using on this plane was based on stealth technology develeloped in the mid 80's. The F 22 uses the most advance stealth technology anywhere known. The weapons and electronic systems are also far more superior than China. If the F 22 and the J 20 ever flew against eachother, the J 20 would probably never see the missle coming.

    • Bill

      And what makes you think the F-117 wreckage was used in the development, and that they haven't made new RAM?

  • Max

    God some of you ppl talk without knowing the actual info. Lets smash some myths.

    1) Canards increase RCS. LOAD OF BULL. If small canard makes a large reflection, then how massive a reflection should the (much larger) wing produce? The J-20 PROTOTYPE RCS modelling showed no large return from canards. In fact its same as the conventional tail-plane. Whether the elevator is in front or behind the wing is irrelevant. If the edges are parallel its all the same RCS then.

    2) Delta wing bleeds more energy in tight turns. Really? Tell that to Gripen, Rafale and Typhoon which have higher turn rate then F-15.

    3)J-20 uses Russian engines. Well to a degree. If those are WS-10 then they pretty much are Russian AL-31F which were copied and installed.

    4) J-20 doesn't have AESA. Well no joke. The early prototypes aren't really meant to have the full weapons systems. Its a PROTOTYPE for gods sake

    5) J-20 will not be as stealthy as F-22 and F-35. Now now. F-35 is already not stealthy. Round nozzle and lots of warts and curves make sure of that. J-20 is already stealthier in terms of shape. Also nobody knows how the J-20 will look in the end.

    The plane is NOT FINISHED. Until it is keep your uninformed opinions where they belong: in your head. Once the completed plane starts series production we can all talk until we get blue in the face on what is better and what is not. I for one know that China has enough graduates in Physics, Chemistry, Maths, IT, Electronics and more to be able to create some rather effective things. China was taught how to make AESA by Israel.


    • Hodor

      What we know is that it wont be better than the F-22

    • Art Lee

      Max you are entirely wrong about the delta wing. It does in fact bleed e faster than conventional. How could it not. Greater surface area in a turn equals more resistance. The number of factors that go into turn rate and radius is voluminous. How do Gripen, Rafale and Typhoon turn compare to F-22 turn ?

  • Tiga

    Personally i think that the US government is going to develop something better than the j-20. We cant possibly say that the 5th gen fighter will be a major success right?
    Who knows the f-35 may suddenly be developed into a 6th gen fighter plane?
    But personally the U.S army has a better experience of developing fighter planes

  • Guest

    1.7 TERABYTES of stolen information? The US could not protect the Norden bombsight.. It could not protect the Manhattan Project. It has huge leaks in the Department of Energy. And now…it can't protect the F22? Why doesn't it just sell its secrets on eBay?

  • sumedho

    Gun!Gun!Gun!Gun!Bang!Bang!Bang!Boom!Boom!Boom! KILL!KILL!KILL!KILL!KILL! The poison mind have transcend to your generation,What education was that? Wake up!!! Reflex your dirty mind.The ccleaner will reflex like the mirror to clear all the virus
    in your mind.What's your right speech and right thoughts????

  • Jack

    Yes, the wings have a massive RCS, but the addition of canards makes it even larger unless the canards are placed at the same height as the wings, and the plane detecting the one with canards is at the same altitude. In the USA with the economic crisis we need to stop getting everything from China, and actually domesticlly manufacture stuff, so we don't get in debt, and get more employment, so we'll have money to continue developing stuff, and China won't have the money to develop more stuff like the J-20!

    • topdog

      contract manufacture F22 to china, so china can sell it to you cheap and USA can make many many wars happily ever after.

      China don't have the experience and gut as american to invade and make war, so they will stick to making factory

  • urabus

    China had been world power for 18 of the last 21 centuries! China had invented many things thousands years ago
    that formed the main pillars for human civilizations and advancements that we see today. There is Nothing China can`t do it is just
    whether China wants or needs to do it. Very soon China will master and transcend all aspects of technology we see in this world like nothing.
    When Marco Polo went to China and learned science and art from China Europe was still in dark ages.

    • DannT

      Yeah, big China. The same country that has had it’s ass kicked by Japan more times then you can count.

      • HenDry

        Really?? Then you don’t know anything… from the first Sino war until Japan defeat in WW II, they (Japan) failed to conquer China even that time China is still struggling in bloody civil war

        • gnak

          but it is in china Japan lost the most men
          if they go on fighting ,Japan will bleed to death
          The russians also accounted for more japanese deaths than americans

      • Michael Liu

        HAHAHA without having any knowledge about the history and yourself!

    • gbrand

      You talk nice about chinese culture but you think like an american. You want to play “who has the biggest cock” game. Every country or continent have his own culture. You talk about human civilization, science, ART. As i have studied, MINE civilization (european one) have been originated by romans and greeks who took their culture from Egypt and Persia. Egyptian empire lasts for 4000 years (40 centuries), they invented architecture, agriculture, science and astronomy. Alexander the great conquered everything until India, Greeks invented philosophy, democracy. Roman Empire took the best from all those cultures and create roads, swimming pools, SEWER, burocracy, law system, tribunals, taxes, military organization used also today.
      In our “dark age” Arabians invented numbers, we created fire weapons from chinese fireworks, italians invented ART, FOR GOD SAKE, banks and discovered the new world. We have OUR history. You have YOUR. That’s universal. Don’t talk bullshit.

      • RB Jacksknife

        It is all global heritage, there was plenty of interaction and transaction throughout history between the east and the west. Do you drink thee? Or occasionally eat spaghetti? Do you know the smell of fireworks? There is no our history vs your history. You can not be from planet earth and proclaim another earthling’s history be disconnected from yours.

    • Allen Hill

      Yah, and they let the British Empire take them down with the opium war!
      The government of China educates its citizens not to think, to follow orders and to not question authority. That is a fact. That does not promote what you claim the Chinese are capable of. The fact that the Globalists put the communists in power, have made them a pathway to steal American manufacturing technology and industrial might does not speak well for their independence. They are under the same control as the rest of the global powers and most of the world’s nations. China will do what they are called to do like most every other nation.

  • godzillajet

    If ill give stars on the different categories it would be like this :

    F-22 raptor

    manoeverability : 9 of 10
    speed :10 of 10
    radar : 10 of 10
    stealth: 10 of 10
    defense : 6 of 10
    electronics : 10 of 10
    range : 6 of 10
    weapons : 9 of 10
    supercruise : 10 of 10
    =80 of 90 stars


    manoeverability : 10 of 10
    speed :10 of 10
    radar : 7 of 10
    stealth: 6 of 10
    defense : 5 of 10
    electronics : 8 of 10
    range : 10 of 10
    weapons : 10 of 10
    supercruise : 10 of 10
    = 76 of 90 stars


    manoeverability : 8 of 10
    speed :10 of 10
    radar : 7 of 10
    stealth: 8 of 10
    defense : 6 of 10
    electronics : 8 of 10
    range : 10 of 10
    weapons : 10 of 10
    supercruise : 8 of 10
    = 75 of 90 stars

    • Bill

      Care to elaborate on the radar, electronics, stealth, maneuverability, and defense of the J-20? The J-20, according to military insiders, will have the largest radar among all 5th generation fighters. The J-20 has EODAS and all the fancy gadgets seen on F-22 and F-35 for situational awareness. The J-20 canards do not add observability if the J-20 adopts canard control. The J-20 can also supercruise at Mach 1.82, according to military insiders. The J-20 design will have a very high AOA, and its thrust to weight ratio is predicted to be around 1.47, much higher than any other 5th generation fighter.

      • godzillajet

        The "makers" of the j-20 said that it wont supercruise as fast than f-22 or PAK-FA and it will be less maneuverable, even the russians which have better technologies than the chinese for now made a radar with 1500 elements for the pak-fa ( F-22 2300 elements) the chinese said that the j-20s radar wont be better than the raptors, even the newer radar of the JSF is far away from the APG-77, and that they have big technical problems. The j-20s and the pak-fas engines both will have thrust of 180 kN but because the j-20 is even bigger than the PAK-FA its questionally that it will be even as fast than f-22 or PAK-FA, the f-22 might have weaker engines(157 kN) but the top thrust is classified and its not so big ,the pilots say its faster than the f-15 and some people claim already that the f-22 can reach speeds of mach 3.

  • Alex

    I don't think that the J-20 will make as much of an impact as everyone is thinking. In 1960, The F-4 Phantom was introduced and in 1983, the F/A-18 Hornet was introduced. The Raptor was introduced in 2005. Clearly, there is about a 20 year gap in between each generation of fighters. All evidence shows that the J-20 can't be introduced for several years, about 20 years after the Raptors introduction, because it needs more development. While all discussions show the J-20 will be able to compete with the Raptor, and possibly even beat it, that comparison is like saying the F-18 hornet is better than the F-4.

  • Alex

    This is clearly true, because by the 1980s, the Phantom was relatively obsolete. By the time the Chinese introduce the J-20, if we use the analogy of the F-18 again, the U.S. will have a jet like the F-18 compared to the Raptor. Therefore, the Chinese introducing the J-20 in the future is like fielding the original F-18 in perhaps, 2002. With the Raptor coming in 3 years after that, the original F-18 was clearly a generation behind. So in the future, when China fields the J-20, sure it may be able to handle Raptors, but what about U.S. technology in 2020. Because clearly by that time the U.S. will have had 20 years to develop the F-22s design and likely have a jet that is as much better than the F-22 as the F-22 was to the F-18.

  • Spooony

    All the fighter planes that has been developed has fell to the Russian SAM's. Current planes has not got the chance to go up against it but it will too. SAM price vs Generation 5 fighter pilot cost? Too much faith and believe in superiority has been bringing these planes down by the cheapest and oldest weaponry you can find. Then where's the Boeiing in that mix? Has proven to be a effective weapon as well….

  • godzillajet

    Most of the comparisons in the are wrong because there are wrong stats, for example on ausairpower is written that the pak-fa has a radar cross section of 0.01 square meters but the russian air force chief said it has a radar cross section of 0.5 square meters and the f-22 has always a top speed of 2420 kph wich loses against the pak-fas with 2527- 2600 kph but this is wrong because the f-22s top speed is still classified, the yf-23 has the same engines and flies above 2655 kph and has an empty weight of 16300 kg, the f-22 has an empty weight of 14365 kg ,a maximal takeoff weight of 38000 kg and a loaded weight from 19300 to 27000 kg which is not so heavy than the yf-23
    ( without max. takeoff) so the f-22 must be faster or the same at least. Then it would make sense when the raptor pilots say its faster than the f-15.

    • Lomunac

      Nooo, but 0.05 square meters.

  • godzillajet

    The PakFa will be have new NPO Saturn engines which are supposed to produce thrust in the 180 KN range. The PakFa would be capable of supercruising at velocities around 1.5-1.8 Mach and a max speed of mach 2.45, which is on par with the F-22 (F-22 may be faster).It will have 3 D Thrust Vectoring Control system. There are a lot of people who believe that 3D TVC is way better than 2D TVC. Disappointingly for them it is not true.The aircraft is highly maneuverable in its pitch axis due to the huge control surfaces on its wings, and the lift generated by the fuselage. The yaw control surfaces are very small and ineffective. The only yaw control surface are the vertical stabilizers. The addition of TVS doesn't make a huge difference to the maneuverability in yaw axis.To turn left or right, TVS or vertical stabilizers are not used, rather the aircraft is rolled in left or right direction and then its pitch control surfaces are used to direct it in the direction in which the pilot wants to go. So the advantage of 3D TVC is minimal when compared to 2D TVC. The F-22 will win because it has superior stealth, the most advanced radar in the world and until the pak-fa gets in service the f-22 will have IRST on block 40 upgrade .

    • sam

      actually its 2.5 according to most people but anyway

      • godzillajet

        Yes but because the top thrust of the f-22 is like the top speed still classified some people claim that the f-22 can reach speeds of mach 3, but only for a short period of time then, because it must have a titanium shape like the sr-71 to fly mach 3 for longer periods.

  • godzillajet

    Hi this is the completion of my comment on which I gave points for the planes,

    In comprison to the raptor the pak-fa has got superior maneuverability, weaponry and range but only with those categories you cant defeat a plane, the raptor has a published speed of Mach 2.25+ but in reality it is as fast than the f-15 eagle which is on par with the PAK-FA the pilots say the raptor is faster than the eagle (some people say it flies mach 3). The f-22 has a radar cross section of 0.001 and the PAK-FA of 0.5 square meters, the raptors radar has 2300 and the PAK-FA 1500 elements and until the PAK-FA gets in service the f-22 will have HMD and IRST on block 40 upgrade. The PAK-FA will supercruise at speeds from mach 1.5-1.8 the f-22 at speeds of mach 1.82 and like the top speed or the maximum thrust the true supercruise is still classified. The j-20s speed , range and payload can be compared with the t-50 but it is less maneuverable.

    • Lomunac

      No, but 0.05 square meters.

  • godzillajet

    For those who think the f-23 was the better plane I can say this : The f-23 flies 2655 kph+ and for the people who say that this is faster than the raptor, how can that be, when they have the same enginesand a comparable weight ? Its because the US dont published it! The f-22 was a bit less stealthy but more maneuverable and the f-23 had big problems with its weapon bays. In comparison to the pak-fa the f-22s radar has 2300 and the pak-fas 1500 elements; the f-22s RCS is 0.0001 and the pak-fas 0.5 square meters.
    The f-22s top speed and supercruise are all classified. The published speed of the F-22 is mach 2.25+ and 1.82 in supercruise mode but it must be higher like mach 2.5, the engines are placed for giving a thrust of 156 kN but the top thrust is still classified too. The t-50 overpowers the raptor only in maneuverability weaponry and range.

    • Lomunac

      0.05 square meters.

  • DKC

    In my personal opinion, the J-20 is a experimental aircraft. The chinese have only produced a few and it hasn't even flown yet. I think the chinese have just relised how expensive this aircraft is. We don't know how much money it takes to produce a J-20. China is inexperienced at effeciently produceing a stealth aircraft. Also, NATO pilots and even Russian pilots are much more expeirienced. For Ghina to have military of that size they without breaking the bank you must two things, cheap weapons or poorly trained troops. If they sacrifice one of these, they will never be able to mantain those men. Speaking of maintnence, the F22 is a pain to service, but imagine what the chinese mechanics, who are used to overly simple aircraft, deal with this tecnological nightmare.

  • lorenzo

    in this article it statea that 1.7 terabytes of information regarding the f22 raptor was stolen from the americans..really?..inm this computer age and cctv camers how could anyone steal even a singe bit of claasfied inhomation

  • Anlushac11

    I agree that the J-20 seems to draws heavily on the MiG 1.42 design. People who say delta wings bleed energy too fast ought to look at the Eurofighter, Rafale, Chengdu J-10, and JAS-39 Gripen. All these aircraft use delta wing layout with forward canards and are considered very capable aircraft.

    The Chinese do have working AESA radars and we can expect to see these operational in the next few years.

    The one area where China still struggles is domestic output engines. I am skeptical that China has developed a usable flight rated 40,000lb thrust WS-15 engine while they are still struggling to get quality control and reliability of the WS-10A under control. The Chinese may have developed examples of the WS-15 that make 40,000lbs thrust but for how long? 30 hours would seem optimistic based on the WS-10A's troubles. China has also made strides in data linking. Imagine J-20's able to dart in to missile range using data links from a KJ-200/2000 AWACS.

    • Art Lee

      Two years later where is AESA network ?

      • Hodor

        jaja you owned him 🙂

      • Shinku

        Not even the Russians are having luck with thier AESA radar. what can you say to a country that’s decades behind its neighbors in the electronics, medical, engineering, science industries? Japan and South Korea are more than capable of pooping allover Russia and China.

  • caribbeancritic

    The F22 are so good they have been grounded again indefinitely/ LOL/ for serious technical defects they tend to kill the pilots

    • Hodor

      And you havent seen how many russian fighters fall like flies being killed by a plaguicide. Russia and chinese fighers have more than twice the failure rate than ameican counterparts…oh wait….who am i talking to? an ignorant?

      • Bryon Wilson

        How would you know? As I recall, 4 F18s have crashed as well as a B2 since May. Get off you BS spree.

  • KrayzieBone

    1. everything that says "Made in China" is absolute CRAP! you know it and I know it!

    2. about time the J-20 gets into full service the United States will have something else! Some Mach 4 flying drone that can shoot down 3 planes at a time or something!

    3. Russia is only making planes to sell and not use in combat! They have been bitten by the Capitalist Bug and they like it!

  • JAY

    Made in China products is just going to fall apart right out of the box, or will break on your ass before you know it? really? How about the entire lineup of "Apple" products? Why They don't make it in the States? Not because of labor cost. It's because the quality out of US factory is not even close to Chinese ones. Blaming on Made in China products will not make Made in USA products look any better. Just take a look at FORD.

    Time to think is USA REALLY better on anything. Just take a look at who are the smartest kids in your school, and figure that out yourself. Once you know those Chinese kids are drop-offs in Chinese school, you probably will be even more shocked.

    • Art Lee

      Jewish kids score significantly higher than chinese kids on tests. You are delusional if you do not think labor costs are second most significant factor. What you allow to be done to the environment is the number one reason. With environmental laws like they are in China. Soon the kids will truly be twice as smart as ours, but who wants a baby with two heads.

      • John

        Lol Art!…Good one!

  • Brian

    those ignores actually think chinese military equipment like something they c in walmart? oh wait, they r ignores. plz go to a military website and learn the difference between Civilian stuff and military stuff before u post this ignore comment

  • sebastian

    actually the fact is that the j20 stealth cannot win the f22 raptor .one thing puzzles me most is that the chinese still sounds very confident that they will win the war if they are fighting agaiinst the us .seriously they are proud when the technology they hav is from russia.come on lah,chinese wake up and stop dreaming

    • godzillajet

      who says that they win ?

    • pari

      So right when we all know cheap Chinese tech can’t even match the japs.they should thank their stars the japs R not manufacturing weapons for war ……. As yet.

  • F-22 fan

    When will they be for sale at walmart?

  • Guest

    I still reckon it was a wrong reason of why US is not exporting the F-22 to the closest aliies. It doesn't matter the Chinese has stolen the top secret information from the lemon JSF program, which China is reportedly developing a second stealth fighter, the medium sized J-60.

  • morganking

    the Avro arrow can beat all of the aircraft in the article above or commenting on

  • Joe MacQueen

    I can't believe all the hype about these air craft and comparing which is the top fighter plane as none that I'm aware of have combat duties or operation's to judge, one is not taking war game's that are put on by their armed force's as to actual combat. I do agree that the many test these plane's go through help in what they are suppose to do in a war like situation.The past has showen that the plane's in WW1 as well as WW2 and even later confict's adapted to other roll's than first thought so as one might suspect this could happen in today's assignment of air craft. With all the ruling the skies you would think there is no need for ground force's or what their need's are as confict's are more gorilla warfare rather than conventional.I 've seen the use of aircraft in recent operation's though little as to dog fighting and as it is pointed out all of the many point's these plane's are capable of one could wonder why compare they all are fast and quite manoeuvariable in flight.There is a lot to being # 1 .

  • JohnParanoid

    "The one who know, don't talk; the one who talk, don't know." C'mon people get a life ! My point is… Haven't you observed US receives the most number of criticisms in terms of Military Capabilities? Why do you think so? Even a US former pilot of F/A-18, with 44 combat missions over iraq, said he was completely terrified. (Oh really?). China thinks they've shock US when they launch J-20 in lesser time and fewer research. Probably, their hackers and spies paid all the hard work. But what they didn't know is that they are only hacking their own product. US borrows money from China to produce these aircraft and to maintain Military Superiority. How about that? "Let there be FOOLS!"

  • Nowhereman

    Those ariframes are goats compared to the F22 airframe development.
    You can always tell the extent of technology by the metal fabrication techniques of an airframe.
    Cheap copies with the exception of the soviet unit.
    There's a Hell of lot more to an ATF design than angular airframe design.
    Don't think for a moment that the YF 23 is dead either…………………

  • somwhere6

    do you guys really think the US will introduce its latest technology to anyone? when the F117 was introduced work on it had begun about 30 years before, just after the second world war. When was it introduced? it won't be surprising if somewhere in area 51 the us is working on a 7th generation figh

    • loupgarous

      “7th generation” is likely not to be anything we’d recognize as a fighter.

      And your timeline… eh, it’s a little long. Modern stealth goes back to the Lockheed Have Blue concept, when microcomputer controls allowed low-observable wing surfaces to be flown on a large aircraft. The original paper on which that technology is based was written in 1964 by Pyotr Ufimtsev, and DARPA didn’t release its RFP for aircraft designs stemming from that paper until 1974.

  • GnrJoe

    Why so much about unproven aircaft combat capabilities none of these jet's have been tested in real combat situation's and we can only hope there is never that need, I find the banter of what one country is doing compared to another and not addressing the need's of how to over come the problems facing F22& F35 make's little sense as the technology advancing rapidly in this century, what is state of the art to-day is absolute in very short time. The USA will alway's be working on another aircraft for what reason to be ahead of what any other country has built. I for one see no reason to compare because until any of said jet's go and do what they were built for they look great at the next air show.

    • Hodor

      Today,F-22 has entered rela combat operation for the 1st time with 100% success rate. Just updating you 2 years later 🙂



  • Gen killer

    HUH………chinese r producing a 5th gen fighter………I M sure that they will make a copy of mig 21 or some 3rd gen fighter and name it F23 raptor killer……..haha……………no 1 can touch the raptor in next 20 years dont u guys get that thing………….

    • John

      The T 50 could wipe the floor with the F22!

      • Hodor

        Nope, PAK-FA is inferior in many ways against the F-22,since i am an aeronautical engineer and you are not,i am no going to provide you technicals details aou ths becae you will not understand .

        • John

          What about the F 35 then? I have read from several sources that it is a huge gamble to replace virtually the entire naval strike force with variations of this plane!

          • Hodor

            Hi Jhon F-22 and F-35 have different purposes,the F-22 is an air dominance fighter which means it is designed to take out other enemy fighters and it is the direct enemy of the PAK-FA,The F-35 is designed for multi-role capabilities,which ncluding bombing ground locations. Normally the F-35 will come once the PAK-FA units get destroyed by the F-22

          • Aza

            Hodor I want to ask you something: since you’re a aeronautical enginner and all, PAK-FA will probably be released on the next 1-4 years, and he will be a “newer” than Raptor, the T-50 isn’t suppose to be better? And why you said “PAK-FA is inferior in many ways against the F-22”? Can you put in simple terms, like the explanation they give us on school (rly, I’m just want a expert explanation)? Another thing: I’m going back to the Su-37 and F-22 “fanboy stuff”. When the Raptor comes, they said the fighters from the Terminator had much more training than the new pilots of the Raptor. And even if F-22 was a new-modern fighter, they very probably wouldn’t win against a Su-37’s pilot due to the experience of flying the Russian pilots had with Su-37. What you think about it? And the when you said “PAK-FA is inferior in many ways against the F-22” is ‘cuz of the same experience the F-22’s pilots have? And the T-50 will be stealthier than Raptor?

          • Hodor

            The T-50 is the same as the PAK-FA, T-50 is the model assignment code of the aircraft and PAK-FA is the proyect name. US F-22 has more advanced equipment than PAK-FA since US military industrial design and production has much more ability to incoporate newer technology in older designs,bare in mind that both designs from paper (F-22 and PAK-FA were concieved in the cold war era, in the 90’s),the only difference is that F-22 prototype flew earlier due to the fact that US has far much better R&D,production,and budget) than the russians. Regardring pilots expertise in air combat ,it is true that F-22 pilots has less combat expierence than SU terminators pilots however,knowing the ease of manage of the F-22, some pilots comments say,using F-22 is much easier to fly than any other plane in the world,which reduces the gap significantly. Besides air combat engagement these days are focused on BVR,which means less dogfighting and more first see,first kill beyond visual range.

          • Aza

            I see. Another thing: why almost everyone say the PAK-FA is a copy of the Raptor?

          • Aza

            Oh, IK the T-50 is the same as the PAK-FA. I just swap the names to don’t keep writing the same name all over again

          • Hodor

            Not true,it is not a copy of the raptor They just make light analysis based on both of them beig stealth,however the design components are very different,in shapes and materials

          • Aza

            Sorry to bother you again… I wanted to ask another thing. It’s has been some time since I’ve read a article comparing the F-22 with the F-35 (was in this year but whatever). They say two Raptor could take-out a target and for the same TGT (air) they would need about six F-35 to go after the same one. Also, the F-35 cost less than a F-22 (as I know, not sure, just read). They said too, the Raptor have a weapon payload higher than F-35. But the F-35 is stealthier, have a better eletronic stuff and all that. I just want to know if the F-35 really cost less than Raptor. And it’s true a F-35 is effective only in numbers (about 4 jets)? Also, they said the F-35 is better in DEADs, but still is a multirole. And like you said, “Normally the F-35 will come once the PAK-FA (to my question, any military plane) units get destroyed by the F-22”. If the F-35 “wouldn’t” come without support of the Raptor, why he is a multirole aircraft? I mean, if I have the Raptor to take-out the air units in a more efficient way, why the F-35 isn’t a full ground attacker? And another thing. He (F-35) is better than a A-10Ato DEADs? THX

          • Hodor

            F-35 is a Multirole Fighter and costs less than the F-22,since its a much newer model with much cheaper,lower capacity components (Except some cases) and also cheaper and refined production process . It also has better electronics in some aspects,for example, the F-22 uses the Multifunction AN/APG77 (probably upgraded in the future) radar which is the best in the world behind the AN/APG/81 used in the F-35. However,the design of the F-22 in terms or Aerodynamics,weapons,software design,mainframe components,Electronic support systems (ALN-94),engines,paint coating are superior ,these are made with state of the art technology,that makes this fighter so expensive,since its a A2A fighter with all weather condition operatibility. it is also much stealthier than the F-35 in terms of RCS (Radar Cross Section). The reason why the F-35 is not a full ground attacker is because in todays modern warfare needs,it is very expensive to have 1 purpose equipment,and thus all designs in air,sea,and ground must have multi-role capabilities,thats why the F-35 can attack ground targets but also engage in air combat.

          • Aza

            Guess not XD Thx

          • loupgarous

            I scratched my head over the closure of the F-22 production line. Many times. I came to the conclusion that if Gates and his people AND the Air Force concurred that we don’t need the F-22, it’s because something better is either in the “black” world, or just isn’t “sexy” enough to be attracting attention.
            MY guess would be General Atomics’ “Predator-C”/”Avenger” concept, swarm-capable high-performance drones each capable of doing SEAD, air superiority, ground-attack and the other pieces of the F-22 mission at substantially lower cost.
            If you can field eight to ten Avengers for the cost of an F-22 and overwhelm the bad guys, it’s a “win.” I’m not minimizing the hazards of that particular strategy – going with remote-control aircraft to bear the brunt of your air combat tasks seems fraught with risk.
            I’m just wondering what could have compelled rational decision-makers to walk away from the F-22.

          • PEBLO

            The J-20 and PAK FA both have 3 dimensional thrust vectoring which is fastly superior to the F-22’s meagre vertical thrust vectoring. The J-20 has been proven to be the most effective stealth fighter as that’s what it’s based around, the J-20 is also multi-role as it is capable of Ground attack, air superiority and naval based offence, it’s electronics and targeting systems are among the best in the world rivaling or surpassing US counterparts, the PAK FA used to be better than the J-20 untill more info was released on the Chinese fighter. don’t get me wrong the F-22 and F-35 are amazing technological feats but with the F-35 being in a tangled production limbo that is plaguing the US defwnce board the J-20 has already entered production and with a clearer role selection that doesn’t cost 1-3 trillion dollars (I forgot the number there) the J-20 is better, the F-22 has my respect as the stealth fighter started the stealth fighter syndrome, and due to China’s philosophy the J-20 will be very similar to the F-22 and if there was a China-US alliance the combo would dominate the skies as both are more advanced than the rushed Tu-50/PAK FA.

          • Allen Hill

            Nobody can make a valid argument that using a two hundred jet to attack ground targets makes any sense. On top of that it is not the best plane for the job because it was not designed to be. Don’t try to understand the thinking of the air force. It cannot be done. It would be better to put the air support in the hands of the people who depend upon it. It is apparently the only way they will get what they really need.
            An example is the F-35 which in the right configuration can take off vertically but due to the high weight it is not desired because of the excess fuel needed. It would be better to “power it up” with a short take-off and landing aircraft. The Navy F-18 and probably the Super Hornet are capable of STOL performance. The F-35 only costs 3-4 time more than a modern semi stealth Hornet. I wold take the extra aircraft any day. For close air support for ground troops the A-10 in their latest upgrades is by far the best air craft out there and fills a role not other aircraft can effectively fulfill as well. It is a special purpose aircraft that has no equal. It needs to be turned over to the army along with its budget and a plan to complete update the entire fleet. It has a long service life in front of it.

          • Art Lee

            Well put Allen. From personal experience I can tell you that the best close air support comes from the Marines. USAF close support scares me a lot of the time.

          • Allen Hill

            The new technology in these supposed 5th generation fighters takes a long time to perfect and it is generally be improved and replaced on a regular basis. The F-22 has been deployed for a long time now. These other planes have a long way to go to catch up. Maybe a decade or two. How can anyone seriously compare them to the F-22?? It doesn’t make sense. These planes will be flying against drones by the time they are perfected.

          • Bryon Wilson

            Well that will never happen. Dream on fools

          • loupgarous

            What sources? Were they 2-ply, white, fluffy and sold on rolls? Because anything you’ve read about the F-35 is probably written in brown letters on paper like that.

            The truth is, the F-35 combines three major aircraft types in one contract, and Lockheed Martin’s getting the production hours down to the point that each F-35 variant’s fly-away cost will come in lower than the cheapest Dassault Rafale.

            It’d be a huge gamble for any other nation’s aerospace contractors to pull this off, but the fact is, that Boeing (who own McDonnell-Douglas’s military aircraft production lines) and Lockheed-Martin each have competitive, highly sophisticated top-to-bottom fifth-generation aircraft development facilities.

            What can only be speculated about other nations’ “fifth-generation” fighters is proven fact for Lockheed Martin and Boeing.

          • Bryon Wilson

            Dream on, the F35 is as much of a failure as the trashed F22 project

        • OR

          who told you there will be one pal fa vs one f-22, how many pal fa do you think can be produced for the cost of one f22 toy, mr aeronautical engineer (btw those who know something never assert themselves in such a bold and immature way seems despite the respectful age..)?

        • Bryon Wilson

          You are full of crap. The F22 was such a success that they canned it. Who are you trying to kid. Do you think that making [paper airplanes qualifies you as an aeronautical engineer? More than likely you are a stewardess.

    • Joezifu

      Dream on guys. You need to win the first war to earn a stripe. Vietnam till today …no stripes.

    • Bryon Wilson

      You are obviously an americun dullard.

  • tofas

    This is totally wrong: "Although J-20 appears as a better stealth aircraft than the rest"…

    Just by having canard wings J-20s radar signature increases a lot. Where F-22 and F-35 use diamond shape hull/wings/tail which is much less detectable.
    Plus US has lots and lots of years developing composites to reduce radar signature.

  • neo

    How does the j 20 compare to the SR-72?

  • Sajan

    Google ” Boeing 6th generation fighter” or ” F/A-XX” ….

  • The USA has nothing to worry about with being up against China’s version. If it’s like most of China’s technology, it’ll break after a few days and the military will ask paypal for a refund.

  • Hodor

    J-20 is a doesnt have a chance against the F-22 raptor. Right now a pack of F-22 are pounding ISIS targets in syria,bear in mind syria has a sophisticated land-air defense,they have Russian s-300 o the ground,and they know,even with the S-300 they couldnt attack US air force.

    • Lomunac

      They won’t, not can’t…

  • Pecker Wood Woody

    I think we in the USA are a very proud people and rightfully so but a warning to the wise, ” Pride comes before a fall ” as quoted from The Word of GOD.

    • John

      Allah does speak in mysterious ways!

  • Nowhereman

    The f-23 right now would make a meal out of all of them.
    Hmmm, a 7th gen F 23 variant in the makings?

  • antichina

    This is making stealth aircraft is not simple like making Peking duck

    • urabus

      Everything is a child play or kinder stuff for China.
      If China cant do no body can either.

  • gbrand

    yeah but stop talkin’ bout WEST. Talk about USA. I don’t compare Kazakhistan to Philippine just cuz is EAST

  • loupgarous

    Actually, when someone posts more “speculation” about the Chengdu J-20, we’re looking for really funny things to capture and post on YouTube. It’s a superplane, it can leap large mountain ranges in a single bound, yada yada yada. The admittedly embarrassing pilot oxygen problems with F-22 were solved a while back, and pretty much the only human factors-limited issue with the plane is that it can pull over 7 gees for as long as its fuel holds out. That’s more than most pilots can handle for long periods of time.

  • Art Lee

    The F-35 will never be very good as an air to air weapon. It is a truck. I hope it at least does that well. The F-22 is pure air superiority and the finest example of that in the world. I think when you build an A/C to do too many jobs you always get one that does none of them well. The F-22 was built to do one thing. Any ability to do others is like a by product from the design decisions made so it would do it’s one job well. Hodor I am sure you can explain it better than I. The F-15 was built with the same mission in mind. It’s ability to drop bombs accurately was not a design decision.

  • cody

    what you people are missing hear, there are 3 elements in an air to air battle, the pilot,the plane, and the situation. America has better pilots, that much is known, they have the experience, picking the better plane is hard, as each have characteristics that differentiate them. id say that the T-50 will perform slightly better, the full 3D thrust vectoring really helps that turn, BUT…. even if both planes can turn at the EXACT same rate… it comes down the situation. whos higher? whos going faster? and the pilot, how many Gs can he pull before blacking out? how quick is he at calculating the intercept angle? im not a real life pilot. but i have spent most of my life playing air combat sims, and i know the basics. i can garrentee most “failures” are the result of the pilot. many fighter crashes lately…. are from the pilot blacking out, as the new 5th gen fighters pull 7 Gs easy. the knockout range of even the most trained pilots.

  • SF

    One casual look at nearly all recent Chinese weapons development tells you China has a very effective process. While little is known about J20, it appears to be a very good concept and moving along at lighting speed.
    Compare to US, the F35 is a joke and F22 is long on the teeth, too few too old by the time J20 enter service in numbers a few years from now. Remember any future conflict or potential conflict will take place near China. These jets will serve China well.

  • bored man

    all apples are delicious. Who of the you commentors have ever seen those fighters doing real combat? go home and take shower and sleep!

  • Shobhit

    I have never expected someone can stole that 1.7 terabytes of top secret information from America. I mean come-on seriously??? America lost many fighter aircraft buyers because of this…who the hell asked them to connect those computer to internet? now China knows all information of 5th gen fighters of America…its pros and cons….If US really have Aurora aircraft then it good otherwise China and America both will finish each other. America should share its technology of “radar-absorbent substance” to the enemies of china so that other enemies of China can also help US to destroy its 2nd biggest enemy(China). This Copy cat should be punished. I have seen the market of US (master of technology) full of chinese products…I mean America can stay as a king of gadgets and technologies if China will not copy everything newly invented by America. thief