Breaking News

Chengdu J-20 China’s first stealth fighter takes to the skies

The latest buzz on Internet is that the China’s Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group is preparing to test its first stealth aircraft known to world as the J-XX and now official J-20.

According to enthusiasts living nearby, the aircraft has already done taxi run and top level officials are coming to the facility to witness the first flight. This comes as a surprise as both American and Russian think tanks had written off China. J-XX is Chinese competitor in the Fifth Generation race.

It is stated to have very low observability, advance avionics and radar coupled with two Turbofan engines generating 180 kN of thrust.

The exact happenings are still uncertain but the images leaked on the internet are extremely convincing. The aircraft seems to be around 60-70 feet long with forward canards and delta wing configuration similar to the J-10. On first look the aircraft looks very similar to the American F-22. However, it has features such twin DSI inlets and V-shaped tail.

The aircraft seems to be fitted with WS-10 engines rather than WS-15 but this cannot be confirmed. According Janes there are two prototype airframes in existence of which one is flight ready.

Exact happenings are still unknown in the formal media as the Chinese Govt is tight lipped on it. If indeed this aircraft is flight ready than this could have serious implication to surrounding countries which are yet to have such an aircraft.

The first high-resolution photographs appeared on Chinese non-governmental websites of a prototype of the Chengdu J-20 fighter being built for the People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) The J-20 appears to be conducting a high-speed taxi test.

The latest images show some startling similarities between the Chinese J-20 and canceled Russian MiG-1.44. Both have similar style of delta wing canard configurations and V-Shaped tail section with closely mounted engines. The frontal aspect looks extremely similar to that of the American F-35 JSF with DSI intake which has now become common on all new Chinese designs.

Finally we cannot comments on this latest development in detail since there are no images of the cockpit hence we just don’t yet know how advance the aircraft is. It could be a half baked cake with good icing or China is indeed very advance. Building a stealth airframe is easy thing for moderately advance countries but what matters is remaining stuff like engine, avionics, radar and sensors and other sub-system which China hasn’t developed to advance stage.

Pictures Source: Defence-Update

Chengdu J-20 Chinese Stealth fighter maiden flight [Video and Pictures]

Comparing Chengdu J-20 with F-22, F-35 and Su-PAK FA or T-50

Threat analysis of Chengdu J-20 the chinese stealth fighter

New Photos and Video of Chengdu J-20 The Chinese Stealth Fighter Released

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About Pratik Sawerdekar

  • http://www.reddit.com/user/VentureBrosef VentureBrosef

    The reason why most of these 5th generation fighters look like the F-22 is because the F-22 is a proven technology. The R&D costs of the F-22 were huge not only monetarily but in time. The best way to streamline this is to take proven tech (through reverse engineering, spying, purchasing, etc) and create your own.

    The problem with these 5th generation planes emerging is that the most important part of the package seems to be lacking. Look at the Sukhoi PAK FA in Russia. The first prototype didn't even have 5th generation engines, because they are behind schedule and very costly. Imagine you own a Formula One team. Ferrari has been winning throughout the past few decades. The best way to compete without spending Ferraris time and money on R&D is to take Ferrari's proven designs and to modify them. The thing that takes the most time is the engine of Ferraris car, which is also what makes it special.You can make the plane as agile and as stealthy as possible, but without proven, reliable, jet engine technology, you can expect to be competing a BMW M3 against a Formula One race car.

    Look at China's aerospace companies. Much of their engine technology is coming through a partnership with GE. There is very little homegrown successful engine technology. China originally had MiG and Su contracts to build them under agreement with Russia inside China, and they used that technology in the next plane.

    In a head to head with a Joint Strike Fighter, I doubt we'd see a challenge.

    Another aspect to consider. AWACs, missile technology, radar tech, etc. These are all championed by the US and Russia. China is all about having a toy, but the accessories will have to wait until next Christmas.

    The brains behind the plane are the pilots. The US has pilots that have been in combat situations for years. No matter what training Chinese pilots get, they will always be green unless they fight in a war.

    China has 0 respect for intellectual property rights, and LOVES to steal other countries military tech. Why do you think the USA refuses to export the F-22, even though that would fuel American jobs and increase the production of that plane (and strength Australia and Japan). They are worried that China could easily steal the technology from the F-22 if it is off shore on those bases not under US eyes. China has already stolen the propulsion data for the B-2 bomber and I believe the rocket systems for the Space Shuttle (I remember reading articles about this, correct me if I'm wrong). It's not hard to imagine they weren't heavily involved in trying to get F-22 and F-35 data… especially given that probably 1/2 the engineers on the teams were of Chinese origin.

    • http://2xlr8.blogspot.com 2xlr8

      agree totally

    • Jester

      How about you drop your butthurt americon attitude for a moment and take a look at the world through those, to your country native, capitalist eyes.

      Technology ideas have been passed one way or another since the beginning of time, there is absolutely no point to your post other then trying to paint a "bad guy" face to an unstoppable development/world trend while trying to glorify what you may observe as American "intellectual property". It is also highly hypocritical, logically incomprehensible to predict outcomes based on propaganda opinion.
      To get back on J-20 topic, even if you are partially right, you still fail to realize, ignoring the global nuclear potential, is that USA has long fallen behind on it's self-given leading role of military advancement and capability, essentially meaning that you are far from being able to attack or counter.

      • islandmbdc

        Looks like you had an overdose of Amer ica-bashing Youtube clips. Yes, the U.S. is in some sort of crisis, primarily economic, but you're naive and uneducated if you insist in your silly opinion. The U.S. military is still ahead by a decade to its nearest rising competitor, China. Besides, there is not going to be a war between the U.S. and China, the costs would simply be too high bilaterally between them and the whole world. You're talking about the end of the World if you envision U.S. and Chinese planes dogfighting against each other. China alone has substantial thermo nuclear weapons to vaporize the western civilization, not counting the inventory of the U.S. You simply will not know therefore the true capabilities of their weapon systems, ie. when tested against each other manned by U.S. and Chinese operators in a true hostile environment. What you, and the other arm chair generals, can only do is to compare "technical" specs which I guarantee you will never be accurate. Which is nothing but a waste of time.

        Going back to you're implicit claim that the U.S. is already finished, I think you're conclusion is fifty (50) years too early to be settled. In the meantime, go out and get a life.

    • LatentFesorb

      If the US plan to fly JSF in the Taiwan Strait, I think China has considerable advantage.

      Radar and missile technologies are all home brew and are at par with Russian tech, which is why all of China's Su-27s have domestic weapon and radar systems.

      WRT the last paragraph, "China has impressive looking fighter! It must be stolen tech because Chinese culture makes pirated DVDs". Considering the how expensive American R&D is these days, how much the US government is in debt, and how rich the Chinese government is, I don't think it is all that unreasonable that they could pour a lot of cash into CAIC and get this bird out. Just because F-22 is suspended and the JSF keeps on being delayed doesn't mean the rest of the world stops playing catch up. China has gone from a fleet of Mig-21 variants to JF-17 to J-10 (stolen from Lavi and Typhoon no doubt) in the last 20 years, yet people still think it is unreasonable for them to come up with something half as good as amazing American tech.

      • Kman

        Agree with latent. If you persist in tracing down who stole whose technology you would find almost all of modern American weaponry were "stolen" from either Nazi germany (v1, v2, Von Braun) and soviets (jet fighter, satellite). That's called " technology diffusion".

        • will

          uhhh, the jet engine was independently designed by the british and the germans. the british version was much better.

    • CalDre

      "The brains behind the plane are the pilots. The US has pilots that have been in combat situations for years. No matter what training Chinese pilots get, they will always be green unless they fight in a war. "

      LMAO – yes, dropping bombs on cavemen is fantastic wartime combat experience! Face it, US has not fought a war against anyone with remotely equivalent technology since WW II (you can make some arguments about Vietnam War and Israeli wars but not really). Israel also dominated unequipped militia and helpless civilians, but when Hezbollah got just a few anti-tank missiles, Israel's army ground to a halt and retreated with tail between legs.

      War with China would not be war with cavemen. Such bravado shows a lack of perspective, maturity, realism – chest-pounding is for Tarzan and others raised by monkeys.

    • Strawman

      "Why do you think the USA refuses to export the F-22, …"

      Weren't those the ones that Obama was trying to bribe Israel with? You know, GIVE them away if Isr would suspend their settlement construction? Or was that the next gen F-35's? Glad we're not just exporting them.

    • Zeke 00

      The author would have been right at home in 1941. Back then the Japanese Zero design was stolen from the U.S. and japanese pilots couldn't see much thru those Coke bottle glasses and weren't a threat. I'd guess the engines are the 117's. F-22 technology went from the U.S. to Israel and then to China.

    • mike

      The JSF has been completely compromised due to 1.5 terabytes of classified data stored on a hard drive that happened to walk off from it's home at the Pentagon. This drive had the specs for the JSF weapon systems, avionics, electronic countermeasures and crucial aspects of the aircraft's stealth technology. Unfortunately the F-35s are nothing more than a multi-billion dollar bunch of paperweights now due to this massive security failure. Every area of the aircraft in which the plans were stored on that drive are going to have to be redone from the ground up or the project scrapped entirely. It's illogical to think that the data on that drive hasn't been dissected and cataloged by foreign intelligence agencies.

    • jojo

      Venture–What you are saying–pilots who drop bombs(32,000') on innocent civilians, do make REALLY good pilots and the planes engineering is secondary? And get this—whaty's with the Chineses stealing designs and all that coptcat garbage?
      Look around you fool—most of the stuff you buy are chinese made and beats the quality of any American product.
      Recall NASA–best since sliced bread–look at it now–depends on the Russians. I suggest you vist China and see how far they are ahead–in all aspects :^/

    • will

      Nope, lockheed required high-level security clearances of the f22 and f35 engineers.

    • JCQ

      Your analogy and assessments are spot on! Well done.

    • Mr Speck

      It would be kind of nice if someone would have operational space shuttles now that US is terminating its program :)

    • Tony

      you are contradicting yourself. if half the team were of chinese origin, this shows they are more than capable of producing with their own talent.

    • kdbcraft

      I cant agree at all,the engine of car industry is totally not same with the aerospace section.thats a bad example and for the f1 example is resonable but still the Chinese did it! Thats the point!

  • http://www.reddit.com/user/SkepticalAdvantage SkepticalAdvantage

    Building a stealth aircraft is not that difficult these days, especially if you don't need to waste all that time and money on R&D and instead just steal the tech from other countries. What remains to be seen is whether or not China has the ability to integrate this type of aircraft with the ground/space based sensor and support systems necessary to make them effective. It's the same reason why a carrier is useless without an accompanying battle group.

    • jon

      Only an American thinks that a carrier is useless without an accompanying battle group. The Russians have a fully integrated multi scenerio platform carrier that sails alone. American perspective is not universal perspective. Stop thinking you are the world.

  • http://www.reddit.com/user/samwisesteamer samwisesteamer

    You know how the US and Russians said the Chinese wouldn't have a stealth fighter until 2020? And do you remember when 1.7 terabytes of top secret information was stolen by unknowns on the F35 JSF? I wonder if it was the Chinese; that would give them the ability to produce one this far ahead of plan. Smells like a conspiracy.

    • Bob

      The F-35 is an entirely different class of aircraft than the J-20, just the size alone makes aerodynamic and structural comparisons meaningless, let alone being single vs twin engines, which changes the entire intake/duct geometry and all associated structure, and the tiny issue with canard vs conventional. Besides, with current projections this plane will become operational at around the same time as the F-35, apparently the 1.7 TB data are written in Chinese because only the Chinese can make use of it.

      Most Americans might know nothing about aerodynamics, but they certainly have an uncanny eye to see a horse in every 4 legged animal.

    • Typhoonq

      @samwisesteamer,

      Are you trying to insult US National Security Agency being consistently incompetent in preventing Chinese spies from getting into US Top
      Security area and removed all the Blue prints on US high tech weapons..

      I am very surprised many Americans in this forum simply cannot accept China own R & D. They failed to look at how China commit to catch up with the best. Super Computer is just an example. Ten years ago, not a single Chinese Super Computer was ranked among the Top 500 . Currently, three of the Top Ten fastest Super Computer in the World are Chinese and the No, One is also Chinese having surpassed US.

      • LOLTyphoon

        Yea. Kinda like when China developed a Neutron bomb through their own R&D and innovation. Oh wait, NM, they had a spy at the Los Almos National Lab in the U.S. DOH!

    • android

      Don't forget, the Americans also claimed there were WMD in Iraq which of course is a false claim made by someone who claimed to be having the "best intelligence in the world".

      Now, the Americans displaying their sillness and arrogant again (in estimating other people's stealth fighter building capability) cannot be used a stickyard to measure what other can or can't do.

  • jjk

    this world is created base on all kind of Chinese invention

  • incendie

    Looks nothing like the US F-22 or the Russian PAK-FA. Why do people keep saying that it looks like them? I can easily tell the difference just by looks.

    • 2xlr8

      what wing stlye ?….

  • Zsixtimes

    Doesn't look like they have even flown it yet, it could still be 2020 before it's in production, which would make that statement somewhat true.

  • http://www.angle-of-attack.blogspot.com Prarik sawerdekar

    the thing that we dont know what this chinese bird has and as i said before building a basic 5th gen is not at all difficult. I totally agree with the first comment

  • Dexter

    Superior technology will trump any pilot any day.

  • tester

    You guys forgot the Chinese have the fastest super computer and bullet train now. The Chinese yuan will be doubling or trippling its value against US dollar in less than 10 years, so China's GDP only needs to grow 3-4% to pass US before 2020. In terms of time and money, the Chinese have the edges.

    • Max Know

      The train is German(Siemans). The super computer the Chinese built is full of American chips and its abilities are still in doubt.

    • AZcowboy

      And don't forget they just launched the world's deepest submersible 3 months ago that could cover 98% of the ocean. Also, the current bullet trains that are in service runs at 220 mph and they are working on one that could top 350 mph in the near future.

  • warsetspace

    No idea why people start to bashing this plan being a copy of F22…
    Seriously, get a F22 photo and compare them side to side.. there is not a single piece of component that is identical (beside perhaps the one piece glass canopy). Yet douches are still crying about piracy!

    F22 and F35 are both diamond-wing-conventional layout
    this plan J20 is a delta-wing-canard layout

    thats miles away different in aerodynamics designs; in fact, thats completely different in terms of design

  • Dummy

    LOL

    I have to laugh at the dumbness and aroggance of the Americans. I have been part of development of modern weapons in a small country with a 10th of the budget and a 10th of the manpower, which are superior to similar weapons in their class to the Americans/Europeans or Russia. At the end of the day the quality of engineers makes a huge difference. It seems to me that the American think only they can develope technology or patent stuff….. Keep on dreaming, guys.

    • Chuck

      Dummy, are you for real. I'm one of those arrogant americans and the US has, for the last 50 years, had stuff in the chute that is so far beyond anything imaginable that your comment wreaks of stupidity. We may be in for a rough ride given the state of our political system right now, but make no mistake, we build stuff 10 and 20 years ago, that the entire world, including the US general population, don't have a clue about. This joke from the Chinese is just hype and show-off, just like the Russians did for decades. No way no how does your 2nd world country build technology even close to this. All it will take is a slight right swing in our political system, and a newly elected Republican pres will reinstate the F-22 and move forward w/ SDI and it really won't matter what China, Russia, or anybody else has. You'll have to come at us w/ hackers, which is your best chance anyway. Militarily, for the next 50 years at least, you are the dreamer.

      • typhoonq

        Chuck, you have over rated your country. US is not the only country that can come out with high tech weapons.
        Anyway, having most advance weapons do not gurantee winning a War.
        It has been proven twice in history. During the Korean War, inspite of US Naval & Air Superiority, your Army was driven back by poorly equipped Chinese soldiers and retreat all the way from the Yalu river to South Korea. On record, this is US Army longest retreat. During the Vietnam War, the US Army virtually threw in all their most advance weapons including Napalm and agent orange to fight against the Vietnamese and Chinese soldiers and yet lost the War.
        Your recent victory over Iraq is nothing to be proud of . Iraq is just a 3rd World country.

        • h4xx0rz

          What victory over Iraq? u mean that "Mission accomplished bullshit"?

          "A victorious stragetist only seeks victory after victory has been won" – Sun Tzu

          War in Iraq = EPIC FAIL for US

    • AmicusCuriae

      A tenth of the budget and a tenth of the manpower? Fantastic! As you can see, I have been to charm school where they taught us to say Fantastic! instead of BS. The competent engineers will follow the resources. Since the US is still spending lavishly on new equipment, I expect the brightest people will still work for them. If the Chinese really, really want to become the best, of course thay can do it. The question is whether they are willing to pay the price? The US has a track record of wasting more money than the rest of the world spends, so that is the "gold standard".

      • Prima Facie

        Lol Small country with tenth the budget and producing what? Yea….exactly.

  • Foolmealways

    Don't worry, our friends the israeli''s will sell our tech out.

  • Chinese Ebay

    Soon this plane should be available for sale along with Fake ipads and Fake iphones for 10% of the original price, 1% of the Original quality and made of 100% Toxic Crapterial!

  • jdoe130

    Too soon to make any speculations based on amateur pictures. Accusations on Chinese not capable of making advanced jet engines and missiles are simply prejudiced. Look at what they have done in high speed train and supercomputer in last 5 years. It might not be such a surprise if they will deploy the most advanced stealth fighter jet by 2015.

    • Ivan

      A train is well……….just a train. A computer made with thousands of nvidea (made for gaming graphics cards) chipsets is well sort of a super computer…… I guess.

      • WMDIdiots

        "A train is well……….just a train. A computer made with thousands of nvidea (made for gaming graphics cards) chipsets is well sort of a super computer…… I guess."

        This kind of statements only reinforce the arrogant and ignorant images that I have about the Americans. Very much like the WMD in Iraq silliness we all laughed at for many years.

        BTW, making a supercomputer fast is not just about increasing the number of processors (be it GPU or CPU) at will. There is always a limit posed by other factors (e.g. heat, management of processors, limitation of the bus architecutre). So one can only interconnect so many processors at any time given the technology available. (otherwise, why not just cram more processors to make it faster)

    • choyak yakatak

      OOPS error fail. 'hig speed train' developed and built by GERMANS

  • Bob

    There’s more similarity between the F25 and Mig-25, i.e. delta wing, twin rudder, closely spaced engines, rear elevators, than there is between this and the combination of 3 prototype western/russian fighters, if you think its a copy you need to see a psychologist.

    Besides, if you worked in the US tech industry you’d know just who’s developing many of the leading edge American projects, just browse through some American journals, IEEE and AIAA for starters, you’d know without foreign intellectual, from the Germans (in the 60s) to Chinese, Indian and Russian today, the US can’t produce a fraction of what it has now. Heck it takes the country two decades just to return to the moon, with 21st century technology, materials, computers, CAD and simulation, and quantitatively same level of funding as the Apollo days, because this time there are no Germans to do the job for you.

  • http://twitter.com/HolocaustGaza @HolocaustGaza

    99% of US military electronic comes from external sources foreign countries like China, Taiwan, Japan or Korea.

    The flat US economic structure won't survive for very long. Evidence: Wall Street doesn't invest in the USA nor does any foreign country any more.

    Game over US – you are done! The new Third Reich of USA is toppling, its population is mostly uneducated, religious polluted and dumb.

    Sorry! You got what you want!

    • kjasdfh

      i didnt want it but i can agree with you..this country has turned into a shit hole!..

  • wellwisher

    Isn't it all about: if you haven't got enough energy and stimulants to supply your own junkees then go out and steal other sovereign nations energy resources just to save your R&D required to find new reserves in your own backyard. Inorder to do so you obliterate that countries' infrastructure and splatter its inhabitants all over their walls only to expect them to defend their mothers and children from rape with homemade "slingshots" . When those same people witness the humiliation of using a "slingshot" out of frustration they crawl in desperation to any punter offering a better slingshot. This continues as necessity is the mother of invention until they frustrate you with all kind of improvised devices and tactics which cause you in you arrogance to scream "unfair" "cheats" "how dare they fight back" "It is illegal for them to buy weapons" "we are doing this for freedom-democracy-liberty" "we want peace" "Oh they were going to buy "weapons of mass destruction". "Oh it is illegal FOR ANYONE to use the term "holocaust" twice in history.
    When will we grow up and be humbled by our 24/7 life of HYPOCROCY. Why not be straight up and admit our "DARWINIST" ideology so we no longer feel our own hypocrycy and admit we are slaves to the "chosen people of god" . The question then arises which god? see Alistair Crowley "Bushes grandfather" see following link………………WAKE UP !
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daxnUMUnolc

    ALL YOU CHAPS ARE BLABBERING ON ABOUT ARE ULTIMATELY THE TOOLS TO IMPLEMENT MARTIAL LAW IN YOUR OWN COUNTRIES'

    EVERYTHING LIES IN ITS OPPOSITE !

    THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE GOD AND HIS FINAL WORD HAS BEEN PRESENTED TO US BY THE "MOST PRAISED ONE" WHO HE SENT FOR THE WHOLE OF MANKIND.

    REMEMBER EVERYTHING LIES IN ITS OPPOSITE.

    THINK AND WORK IT OUT THEN RUN TO YOUR DESTINY LIKE A LIZARD RUNS FOR ITS HOLE ! EITHER WAY THE SAME APPLYS !

  • India American

    Jealous : > feeling resentment against someone because of that person's rivalry, success, or advantages

  • Divot

    Didn't Israeli dual nationals steal most of the US secret technology, and then sell off what they could to the highest bidder??

    Also China recently built the world fastest supercomputer and the worlds fastest trains and longest bridges – maybe the new superpower will be less of a war mongering maniac in the world??

    • guest333

      never heard the yanks complaining about somebody stealing oil from the arabs?? hmm….

  • TruthBlade12

    Is it possible China has 10th generation fighters…and only has introduced the 5th generation figthers as a way of …
    providing propaganda & disinfo to the think tanks..
    After all…all militaries keep their investments & technology close to the vest..

    I think most of you either work as diinfo agents for fusion centers hoping to gai nintel on common ordeinary Americans when you actually need to be gathering information on those who are destroying your nation….

    You sort of live under the illusion of inclusion dont you…

  • JackieG

    A few years back a U.S. spy plane was forced down in China.
    The Chinese went over the thing, dismantled it and put it back together in a few days.
    They could have these things in production in a matter of weeks at the rate of 10 a day.
    The Chinese build 15 story buildings to completion in 6 days.
    They can build 500 15 story buildings a month.

    • lmaoJackie

      So could any country with 3x the labor force, 0 pesky environmental regulation, and 0 workers compensation laws. What's your point?

  • Bardy

    I find it intriguing that the usual yank attitude towards Chinese weapons development is that they stole it thru some nefarious means from the Amerikans. What probably happened is the disgusting isrehell’s stole it from their host country, Amerika, and then proceeded to sell the technology to China without Amerika’s knowledge or permission. So yanks, look at who is controlling your country, zionists and jews from israhell.
    If you yanks weren’t so bent on creating trouble and mischief where ever you go and weren’t so damned dis-trustful and underhanded, China and other folks wouldn’t have to generate a weapons industry to protect themselves from bastards like the yanks and the distainful zionists.
    It is about time to give China some well deserved credit for how far they have come in the last 20 years. I say well done. A uni-polar world with yank hegemony is so unhealthy. Good luck to the BRIC countries and lets sit back and watch amerika’s demise. YEA!!

  • James

    J-20 Can keep F-22 , F-35, F-18, F-16 out of Asia sky, without air control capacity, USA no long be in leadership of world.

  • James

    J-20 ending USAF F-22 air superiority

  • Saf85

    Bunch of Ignorant fools who just like to talk down China, Russia and anyone else who is not the US of A.

    For anyone who knows shit bout airframes, just because something looks similar outside, no way it is remotely similar inside. For all you know these massive beasts can handle twice the g force and stress of anything the USA or Russia can build (I mean look at the estimated size ffs, 60-70ft, wtf! that more like a bomber than a fighter jet). not to mention you have no way of knowing what they use for the stealth, could be plasma gas like the Russians were experimenting on, could be paint and absorbant/refractive materials like the usa use, could be combination, could be something the world has yet to hear of.

    Just becuase the Chinese love to reverse engineer stuff, does not mean they lack the ability or facilities to create their own original technologies, just mean they are smart enough to let the rest of the world do the hard work, then come along and take that hard work and tweak it lol. As for the USA trumpers, just look at the worlds most powerful super computer, you arte no longer the only super power and you will be lucky to stay a first world nation given your economy and debts, enough said.

  • James

    The J-20 is more or less the Northrop/Grumman/McDonnel Douglas YF-23.
    The McDonnel Douglas Super Computer and tools used to design and build the YF-23 prototypes were sold to China and went straight to a Chinese Defense Plant after the U.S.A.F. chose the YF-22 as the Advanced Tactical Fighter.

    It is my opinion that the YF-22 was selected over the YF-23 because the consortium the designed and built the YF-23 had contracts for the F-14, F-15, F-18 fighters.

    The YF-23 was designed to carry the Advanced Tactical Supersonic Cruise Missile and air to air missiles on an internal rotary launcher; to strike deep and clear the skies as an air superiority fighter.

    The F-22 carries air to air missiles internally on a rotary launcher but the weapons bay is too short to carry the Advanced Tactical Supersonic Cruise Missile.

    China's sudden leap to build advanced jet fighters, missiles and bombers is a result of the United States selling China Super Computers.

    What is happening with China is like what happened when the United States sold nuclear reactors to India, they were used for military purposes.

    The United States never learns.

    • Typhoonq

      James,

      You have embarrassed yourself !

      Don't you know that US and the West have imposed an embargo on Weapons Sales to China since 1989.

      I am sick and tired of stero-type Americans prejudice against Chinese Talents. China rise in Science and Technology is not recent or a miracle. Prior to A.D 1600 before US was born, China was the most advance country of the world. Even their early inventions are still in used today.

      Do you know that the Chinese for the last 10 years have dominated in Maths & Science Olympia and in 2009 Programming & Coding competition sponsored by US NSA, of the 70 grand finalist 20 are Chinese, 10 Russians and only 2 Americans.
      Do you bother to find out which Naitonality has the highest IQ and produce the most engineers and scientist.

      In the 90's when China had made quantum leaps in its Cruise Missile faster than aniticipated, some Americans alleged this was due to Chinese reverse engineering after they got hold of faulty Tomahawk missiles that landed more or less intact.
      What nonsense are you people talking about ?

  • James

    Chineses are now 5 to 10 years late to western military technology.Just think the YF22 did its roll out in 1990 and F22 in 97.China is able to do better than the F22 (except for the engine).J-20 seems to be a plane performing both F22 and F35 missions and probably whith bomb bays which are not specialized like F22, and a better autonomy than F22.This would be logical for China to deny Pacific rim to US and attack its air and sea or ground assets.
    Unfortunately there is a fighter gap (plus missile gap plus subs gap plus ASAT gap etc.) closing rapidly.Chinese progress have been amazing during the last decade in the weapon sector from ASAT to subs to missiles or radars.Their global investment is now in the same magnitude order, in local purchasing power parity than USA.For stealth, computer analysis and power, is mandatory to design a modern real stealth fighter.And China has now the most powerful supercomputer in the world ( Tianhe-1A).Due to those means, J20 will be as advanced of not even better in some aspects than F22.China is not a socialist and closed economy like the soviets, and has the means.In 2020 US air dominance is not garanted anymore without a successor for F22 including for the Navy

  • choh long

    You guys think chinese do not possess such plane. They will only leak out the information when the plane already being in operational or in production. And most likely fly over the American air-craft carrier with out being notice.

  • noduh

    This was given to them. As was the MIG. Wake up, folks. North Korea/???/??? will surprise the hell out of the 'allied/NATO' pilots in air combat if challenged….just like they did the first time. Sweet sweet moolah.

  • FG122

    It's funny but I bet must of the engineers working on F22/35 projects were foreigners from China/India/Russia. Let's face it young americans only care about iCarly and Hannah Montana and are allergic to Math and Physics. In the next couple of decades US will not lead the technological realm because all those Nazi scientist we took during WWII are already dead or will be dead by then and the next best thing are Chinesse grad students.

    • AmicusCuriae

      I didn't meet any Chinese/Indian/Russian engineers on the F-22 or the F-35. Maybe they are also allergic to Math and Physics? Also, our German Scientists are better than their German Scientists.

  • JiaiyiLi

    photos are not real !!!! some people made it by computer program !!!!

  • Chuck

    This is all really funny, I mean, I know I mentioned the ability to bring the F22 program back w/ one swipe of a pen from a new (with a clue) president…but we all know why it was let go and it really had little to do w/ money, it's not like the us gov has a problem over spending. it was because there is something else better in the chute, or already deployed. we just put up an unmanned space shuttle for 7 months and nobody knows why. i'll tell you why. we are so far ahead of where the general public, chinese, russians, etc think we are that all we can do is sit around and teeth grit about what the J-20 can or can't do. we probably just put up some beast satellite that could knock a J-20 out of the sky with a titanium rod. kidding of course, but you get the idea. if we implode, it'll be internally, not because some lame up and coming pseudo-world-power develops 10-20 year old technology and tries to make us believe it's 5th+ generation stealth technology. A good stealthed F-15 w/ a good pilot would probably knock a J-20 out of the sky. The Chinese scar me more w/ money manipulation than they do w/ military technology, military tech is only a smoke screen for them.

    • AmicusCuriae

      I know why the F-22 was let go, but you sure have some odd ideas. It was because a strange bedfellows coalition made up of anti-defense leftists, grudge holding Congresspeople, promotion seeking military leaders, and well connected (in the government and in industry) F-35 promoters, systematically eliminated all competition for the F-35. An intergal part of this scheme was to make it "too big to fail". The promotional part of the scheme was brilliantly executed, but the technical part is having some trouble. It is too big to fail, though. It has that going for it.

  • John Doe

    Don't player hate. Hate the game….

    The US airsuperiority and it's space program took a huge leap forward after WOII with thanks to nazi scientists imported from Germany. Germany technology was copied and pasted on US designs. Just as the chinese are now doing with the US technology. Copy and paste! Presto, it's not like they are the first to copy things from others. The US did it before them, and sure enough it happend way before in history.

    • AmicusCuriae

      Here's the thing, John. It is the will to get it done and the provision of the necessary resources that matters. Cut and paste? It is not that easy. But, if they have the national will, it can be done. No bucks (or yuan?), no Buck Rodgers.

  • Gordon

    I find it interesting that so many of my fellow Americans can make such ignorant claims as "the Chinese don't invent anything, they only steal ideas". Up until the 18th century, inventions by the Chinese have far outpaced those of the Europeans. In those centuries, it was the west that stole the inventions from China. Magnetic compass, gunpowder, block printing, just to name a few.

    I think a lot of Americans are simply not ready to accept the new reality that the Chinese (as well as several other Asian nations) are once again as smart (if not smarter) than the west. Just look at American public school system as an example. Many of the highest rated school districts in the U.S (AP enrollment, magnet programs, standardized testing scores) are located in areas with dense concentration of Chinese population (Bay Area, DC Area, Long Island, Orange County, etc). In fact, some of the top universities in the country (such as Cal Berkeley) have had to implement artificial caps on how many new Chinese students they can admit each year in order to preserve campus diversity. Welcome to the new world. Either you adapt and get left behind. Such is the cruel reality of evolution.

    • CrazyGordon

      Are you kidding? I think many Americans know that Japanese technology is equal to or greater than American technology in many respects. The only reason Japan is not rolling out the Sony AIR KICKING fighter is because they are not allowed to have a military. China is nowhere near Japan, and nowhere near the U.S. This is not to say that China is not smart, not hard working, etc. But when you copy or steal technology to close the technology gap, you grow accustomed to that formula. To think that some form of stolen or copied technology is not in the Chinese fighter is just plain ignorant as people on this board claim that Americans are. LOL

  • Typhoonq

    Gordon, you are perfectly correct to bring up the subject of education and made comparison between the Chinese and American.
    China sudden rise is not a miracle. As you said, they had been there before.

    China produce a large pool of engineers and scientists.
    For the last ten years, the Chinese Govt gave emphasis on R & D on all frontiers of High Tech and Military Scientific Research.The present Chinese top politburo leaders consisted of 8 engineers and 1 scientist as compared to US cabinet minister who are mainly lawyers.
    As the Chinese economy get stronger, more funds are now injected to ensure China will be the next Super Power in Science and technology.

    Regardless where they are Chinese students always perform very well in Maths and Science. Just look at the Maths & Science Olympia where Chinese dominated for the last ten years. Even participants from US, Canada and Australia have ethnic Chinese in their team.Likewise they are equally outstanding in Computer Science and their students dominated in 2009 US NSA sponsored Programming and Coding competition.

    • SillTyphoon

      LOL another parroting of statistics with poor methodology and internal U.S. fear mongering. China produces a large pool of engineers and scientists because they have A BILLION PEOPLE, not because they are magically smarter than everyone else. If you want to see how smart a population is, you have to look at the desired trait per-capita. If 10% of Chinese were geniuses in math, of course they would make Americans look like idiots in comparison because we have a fraction of their total population! You see higher representation of Asians in American schools because their TOP performers outnumber our top performers plus marginal performers (who would normally be admitted) through numerical superiority. Statistics and data without context will lead you to inclusive and worthless conclusions. I promise you, there are just as many, if not more, poor/uneducated Chinese as there are in America. Anti-Americans and China lovers be warned, I am not saying that China is not smart, or that they are not poised to be an economic powerhouse. Just saying that you need to look at facts objectively.

    • chao

      China ancien science was even more advance than any kind of modern science because we live 4500 years in harmony with nature. But western invansions destroyed all the best.

  • yo yo

    well, the f-22 took its maiden flight some 22 years ago…I'm certain that the Chinese can invent all kinds of neat toys just as good as the US can; but these things are of a tactical nature. The US is still leading the world scientific community (by international consensus/agreement, not America's-look it up) in the GAME-CHANGING tech, and the gap is widening in our favor…dramatically.

    What are these game-changing techs? To name a few: Biotechnology and nanotechnology. Air superiority won't mean a thing against "smart-precision-plagues" that can wipe out whole armies in hours and micro-bots who can convert bags of rice into cruise missiles.

    Also, all this talk about Chinese Americans or other nationalities as being a downside to the US is just silly. Our greatest advantage as a country is staying "young" by incorporating masses of emigres who then feel more allegiance to the USA than to the mother country…look at WW2: germans and japanese-americans did nothing to hurt their adopted country despite being sizable minorities.

    In contrast, take countries like China, Russia or Japan (or even many European nations); these countries are developing massive demographic crises due to aging populations and their inability/unwillingness to integrate emigres, foreign cultures and ideas. As for China: pretty soon (in like 5-10 years) there will be one aging-retiree for every young worker…good luck paying for/maintaining high-tech infrastructure!

    I remember when I was growing up in the 1980s, everyone was saying that Japan would soon overtake the USA economically and that, one day, all of the US would be ruled by Japanese companies. And that if the Japanese somehow decided to dump all of their US debt, our economy would collapse….sound familiar? That was 30 years ago! Flashback to my parents time (50s-60s) and many were saying that the USSR's centralized economy and industrial output would swamp America's.

    The US has many problems too, don't get me wrong, and although we are the leading nation, our advantage is sure to shrink as massive countries such as India, China, Brazil develop, but I find it hard to believe that the China (or any other country) will overtake the US as "sole-superpower."

    So, to all those who are grasping at straws to foresee a US-downfall, sorry, but you'll be grasping at isolated statistics for the rest of your lives….

    • guest333

      that's because yanks can rob the arabs for oil with impunity, no? don't make us laugh. the whole world knows it except typical megalomanic yanks. stand at a different angle to look at things for once. it's for your own good. maybe china could find a pretext like 'kill asia terrorists for world peace' and wage war against malaysia or brunei to get their resources? wonder why hardly any 'terrorists' ever targeted china? or the people of chinese descent? confuciun wisdom…

      • hushGust

        this coming from a brit? lol btw, terrorists hardly target China because China would utterly destroy them. You know, like you guys did in India and most of Africa. Liberalism and that annoying Constitution thing kinda prevents that sorta thing from going on in the states.

  • johnyhuang

    chinese j 20 no matter wether they steal copy or combined technology as long as they get best of it .let the dragon sleep don not wake it up if the big dragon wake up the whole world will shaken and turn down.china is a great nation since encient time before america born .

  • Ortogonal

    All very interesting comments, while reading all these oriental math/science superiority I was thinking of some russian mathematician who refuses press/social contact. To become a humanoid numbers crunching machine u need discipline and some talent, to be really above all martial disciplined training that doesnt suffice, oriental ascendance students cannt train genetical talent, cheers !

  • guest333

    yanks' megalomanic arrogance and ignorance will be their ultimate downfall.

    • hushguest

      What do you expect? "Yanks" descended from Brits. lol

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